Freedom of speech.

[4v6]

My take on the gun aspect of the states is that guns dont fire themselves.
Just the same way as a knife dosent jump up and stab you, its the person behind the object thats the danger not the method of injury or impliment theyve chosen to inflict it on you with.

Guns are illegal in this country but still criminals use them against an unarmed population because it gives them the vital leverage they need to continue doing their deeds, if it was lawful id have a gun in a heartbeat and use it against any opponent seeking to do bodily harm to those I care about.

Yes theres very many people who shouldnt have access to guns, lawful or not yet the criminal element dont care a toss about what the law says because theyre operating outside of it, unlike those who comply with laws.

The condom principle applies to guns- Better to have one and not need one than to need one and not have one.

[4v6]

Originally Posted by rich.r

The thing is Trump by stating stop muslims entering the USA may well stop some killings or bombings.

It won't stop the ones in the country already.

As has been said in the past not all Muslims are suicide bombers but all the suicide bombers have been Muslims.

Unless you know different.

Trumps opened up a line of discussion thats previously been silenced by all those types I previously alluded to, like him or loathe him hes saying something that needs to be said, Islam is the problem, its simply incompatible with western society.

The often cited peaceful, tolerant aspect of islam the left love to trump-et ( pun intended) , does that include FGM? child brides and sex, subjugation of women, hatred towards homosexuals, non integration etc that we're supposed to turn a blind eye to?
Theres something wrong with the religion of peace, mainly its not displaying much in the way of it, if all these issues arent dealt with and solidly, i fear for the future.
You have to ask why saudi arabias response to germanys illegal immigrant influx was to send aid in the from of building as many new mosques as possible?
Its a mission statement in my opinion, rather like chess pieces being positioned strategically to project power, thats why churches ( many) are built on hills high up.
Trump might be right he might be wrong but i see no reason to stymie discussion because one section or another feels offended by it.

[Hanuman]

The way I see it (and you'll be hard pressed to convince me otherwise with rhetoric), and in no particular order...

Faith is what people have, while religion is generally how one person or group tells/instructs/dictates another person should have faith. The true martyr is the one who won't be shaken from his faith through terror, while the false martyr is the one who tries to shake others' faith with terror. A subtlety lost among the crazies.

Religion in the hands of free thinking pragmatists tends to be harmless, beneficial, and nurturing. An aspect that lacks the horror and headline, and so is largely overlooked. When it falls into the hands of charlatans, medicine men, magic elixir pedlars and the like, it is harmful and divisive. Which it would seem, spawns the various very polarised branches (cue a wonderfully apt Monty Python sketch)
Once it falls into the hands of the aggressively manipulative, sociopathic/psychopathic segment of society, it is damaging in the extreme. Most religions fall into this trap, too. Sadly, human society is riddled with the latter predators, just waiting for an opportunity.

Islam is a relatively young religion, and if we subtract the 6-7 centuries of the difference between the advent of Christianity, and the advent of Islam; then look back through history, then the outrages of Islam can just as easily be matched with similar outrages brought about by Christianity.
Christianity has had major conflict within itself, involving civil war, and continental war. Oddly, or not, so has Islam.
The shame of it, is that Islam is truly going through this petulant-teen stupidity at a time when modern technology should allow all to be truly aware and enlightened. It is this method of awareness through technology that is being usurped by the sociopathic element to further their cause, while most of us are hiding heads in sand.
(If you think that's wrong, then explain how the attrocities of 1990s Balkans can have occurred only half a century or so after the earlier events that brought war to Europe. Again)

All religions have their hardline sects. Islam, sadly, is making good use of technology to put it in your face, while other sects (extremist Judaism has many parallels with extremist Islam, oft overlooked) tend to be somewhat more conservative.
Well, there's an irony! Extreme Islam demands extreme conservatism by being highly liberal by use of many of the methods which it ostensibly abhors?
So, it's hypocritical. No big surprise there, then.

One major contribution to the easy spread of rabid sentiment is poor education. In many countries east of Europe (I hesitate to say east of Watford), education of lower classes is highly restrictive, and further, educating women has taken an about face. Ignorance is a weapon, make no mistake. Failing to educate is in many cases deliberate.

I think back on several anecdotes over the last decade or so of my travels, especially in Asia.

The cousin of a good friend (both Muslim), who had been educated at about the same time as myself. He (the cousin), by teachers who had grown up in the aftermath of the partition of India into its three very twisted states, following the decline of empire; and myself by teachers having grown up during and in the aftermath of world war 2.
We have armistice day, Remembrance Day, and the poppy as a symbol of sacrifice, in the forlorn hope that we never forget. In parts of Asia fresh from empire, this is taught as being empire celebrating the subjugation of the darkie, pure and simple.
His vitriolic hatred of anyone white being evident (unless you happened to be in possession of a bottle of spirits. He's a hopeless alcoholic, too)

A colleague from an otherwise Islamic state in Africa. Such a mild, gentle, good humoured guy, who freely criticised the wilful subversion of the teachings of the Quran and many of its very basic messages regarding respect and benevolence.

While another colleague, whose blind professional ignorance is demonstrated by his free use of Insh'allah to pardon his transgressions, where others would be found criminally negligent.

Again. Make no mistake. The main weapon in use, I believe, is ignorance.
How many people who harbour a hatred of Islam in the whole, do so from any actual experience instead of what they read on Farcebook? (Where the word friend is already at odds with the definition in many dictionaries)
Likewise, how many Muslims truly understand anything outside of their own community, where poor teachings are perpetrated and perpetuated, so that lie becomes truth, and truth becomes heresy? You have only to look at the many immigrants who escape their own country or culture, only to bring all of the baggage with them, to breed the same problems afresh.

The average person, wherever he is, just wants to get on with life. All of the high profile, media biased, hyperbole is generally beyond most, as there are not enough hours in a day to untangle it all. This unfortunately plays into the hands of those whose hours in a day are dedicated to particular agendas. Now, the crazies are in charge. On both sides.

[SorenR]

Well... Regardless, only two gods have ever existed with the ability to CREATE... GOD (so the christians say) and HEIMDALL (the protector of Asgard, son of Odin and 9 mothers!).

[Isimmo]

That reads like a Sloowwly Siideways membership application form.

[Steev]

Originally Posted by SorenR

Well... Regardless, only two gods have ever existed with the ability to CREATE... GOD (so the christians say) and HEIMDALL (the protector of Asgard, son of Odin and 9 mothers!).

Interesting; but Allah that Muslims believe in and God that Christians and Jews believe in, is the same deity.

The only argument are the guys that came after, whether you call him Jesus or Mohammad, if you remove them from the equation we have agreement.

Although don't tell the Jews that

Of all the other religions Hinduism is probably the most eclectic, but others such Buddhism and Sikhism tend to point to a single deity.

Sikhism particularly takes into account many other aspects of different faiths.

In general going back to the thread's title, all moderate faiths allow freedom of speech; Trump is an example of the reactionary rhetoric that can be very damaging, if Trump had spend 14 years in a Taliban jail would he have emerged as Shaker Aamer and said the the same things? I think not.

Heimdall? Well again, a single deity; "There can be only one!!!"

oops sorry a bit of Highlander sneaked in there.

[nik]

heard one paper comparing trump to hitler................he hasnt mustache

[b2_sport]

some good points raised by The Real MSH! and Steev, and to further expand on what you said about Sikhism;

* Sikhs believe that there is only one God and this is the God of all religions
* Created the world for people to use and enjoy
* Created people and made them know the difference between right and wrong
* Sikh women have equal rights to men, because God is neither male or female
* Every person is equal and should be treated equally, there is no discrimination
* In the eyes of God, a kind act towards a human being shows respect to one of God's creatures, and is an act of worship towards God.

Far too many idiots using religion as a front for war, extremist ideology, dirty politics & personal gain.

[rich.r]

Originally Posted by Emjay

Trump should be far more concerned about the amount of American cutizens that die at the hands if fellow Anerican citizens due to an absurd constiution that allows them all to bear arms.

But thats not the topic of the thread, albeit home grown killers are there to be seen.

[Emjay]

Originally Posted by rich.r

But thats not the topic of the thread, albeit home grown killers are there to be seen.

I am allowed to raise it in the interest of freedom of speech