a 'Boys own' story! - Page 19

LYT4X · 21-10-13, 05:49 PM

Not updated this thread for a wee while so here goes........

We found the fuelling problem a couple of weeks later..... A tiny (in-line gauze type) filter built into the entry point on the 034 fuel rail had been getting clogged-up. This made the fuel pumps work a bit harder which, in turn, warmed the fuel a bit more. Eventually, the pumps started to break down and caused even more fine particles to hit the gauze. Instead of pushing 5 litres per minute, they were managing less than 2 - effectively banging their heads against this obstruction at the fuel rail.

The hot fuel being returned to the swirl pot was making matters worse as the constant heat exchange was making the whole 'system' get hotter and hotter.

Solution: two new 044 pumps, a change of in-line filter. Sorted!!

Then the bombshell hit......

Back at the beginning, I purchased a 'Fully MSA Compliant' T45 cage from Custom Cages. Throughout the build process, we kept them informed (with photos) of what we added to the cage and they consistently confirmed that this would not affect the certification.

Well, that (nuclear) bombshell came when the MSA refused my application for a log-book because the paperwork from Custom Cages was not correct. It transpired that the 'cage certificate' which we received and subsequently passed to the MSA was no more than a bit of paper suggesting the cage would be fine - not a certificate at all. In fact, the cage has never been certified and it has never been fully MSA compliant either.

Throughout this build I had let-downs by UK based suppliers (remember the fuel tank), but while this one could perhaps be blamed on a bit of misunderstanding and website sales patter, the effects were truly devastating. I had dialogue with the boss at Custom Cages and he accepted that their description of the purchased item was not correct. At one point, I had a mind to pursue them through the courts for consequential losses, but life is too short for that kind of hassle. We reached an agreement which saw some additional work being done on the cage in the past month or so. In short, we have gone the whole-hog and had the cage re-designed (adding more structure) with a view to getting this bespoke item internationally certified at MIRA. We've added a cross diagonal in the main hoop as well as some A-pillar stays to the door bars and a few gussets here and there. Custom Cages paid for the development and design work and provided the additional tubular members free of charge, whilst I am standing the cost of the MIRA certification (£850) and the subsequent MSA acceptance fee (£300).

What we now have (as of this morning) is the only properly certified multipoint cage in existence for a LWB quattro. The only issue is that the car isn't going to be quite as easy to get in and out of. However, it has made a fairly safe shell and cage into a very safe shell/cage and one which should be capable of competing anywhere in the world.

The additional lamps have been wired up now too and we are good to go!

It's been almost five years since we the inception of this project - a long and sometimes pain road to get here...

So, Sunday 27th October sees the unveiling of this car on the Galloway Hills Rally (http://www.gallowayhillsrally.co.uk), not too far from Carlisle if anyone is interested! They even have a spectator super special stage (with an over-and-under bridge) lined-up for us this year.

I was sent these photos this morning from the motorsports workshop - I just hope we can both get the cars to the finish in the same condition as you see them here. Kris (pictured) is responsible for building both these cars and he is taking the Lancia out on the rally too.

Wish me luck!!

inne3quattro · 21-10-13, 07:00 PM

Finally ! And good luck !

Puglife · 21-10-13, 07:04 PM

I won't go into too much detail but when I worked for a well known WRC team we had massive issues with Custom Cages.. Mainly poor quality (none conformed) materials which didn't pass the specification checks for composition or mechanical properties.

Custom cages don't have a quality procedure in place and the standard of cages and materials used are not as advertised, just because they are a well established firm means they stay in business. Glad to hear it is sorted now John.

LYT4X · 21-10-13, 07:11 PM

You guys are both close enough to come and watch the rally! Set the alarms for Sunday morning and come and say hello!!!

LYT4X · 21-10-13, 07:27 PM

Here's another picture of the finished cage:

jamesfuller · 21-10-13, 07:44 PM

I take my hat off to you, your patience and general outlook is to be admired!
It certainly looks the part, I assume you now have to get in and then put on your crash helmet!

Good luck with the rally! A great shame I will not be anywhere near or I would have been there spectating.

stuvy · 21-10-13, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puglife

I won't go into too much detail but when I worked for a well known WRC team we had massive issues with Custom Cages.. Mainly poor quality (none conformed) materials which didn't pass the specification checks for composition or mechanical properties.

Custom cages don't have a quality procedure in place and the standard of cages and materials used are not as advertised, just because they are a well established firm means they stay in business. Glad to hear it is sorted now John.

strange that 4 of us had them in our kit race cars and they were fine even when someone tested his upside down at cadwell a few years back!

the car looks brilliant i love race/rally reps good luck with the stage. I wish it was closer as id love to come and watch

LYT4X · 28-10-13, 12:43 AM

I guess the pictures can speak for themselves!

We finished the first event and we weren't last. A very tough rally with only a couple of stages which made us really smile. Most of the stages were trecherous and there were a few moments where I thought it was the last of our day. However, the car was faultless which was more than I could say for myself. Two service halts were spent drinking coffee and waiting to get back in and set-off again.

john johnson · 28-10-13, 06:58 AM

Epic pictures there JC ... Well done

inne3quattro · 28-10-13, 08:07 AM

Fantastic pictures, car looks very well indeed.

21-10-13, 05:49 PM	#181
LYT4X Younger than JJ ! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 651	Not updated this thread for a wee while so here goes........ We found the fuelling problem a couple of weeks later..... A tiny (in-line gauze type) filter built into the entry point on the 034 fuel rail had been getting clogged-up. This made the fuel pumps work a bit harder which, in turn, warmed the fuel a bit more. Eventually, the pumps started to break down and caused even more fine particles to hit the gauze. Instead of pushing 5 litres per minute, they were managing less than 2 - effectively banging their heads against this obstruction at the fuel rail. The hot fuel being returned to the swirl pot was making matters worse as the constant heat exchange was making the whole 'system' get hotter and hotter. Solution: two new 044 pumps, a change of in-line filter. Sorted!! Then the bombshell hit...... Back at the beginning, I purchased a 'Fully MSA Compliant' T45 cage from Custom Cages. Throughout the build process, we kept them informed (with photos) of what we added to the cage and they consistently confirmed that this would not affect the certification. Well, that (nuclear) bombshell came when the MSA refused my application for a log-book because the paperwork from Custom Cages was not correct. It transpired that the 'cage certificate' which we received and subsequently passed to the MSA was no more than a bit of paper suggesting the cage would be fine - not a certificate at all. In fact, the cage has never been certified and it has never been fully MSA compliant either. Throughout this build I had let-downs by UK based suppliers (remember the fuel tank), but while this one could perhaps be blamed on a bit of misunderstanding and website sales patter, the effects were truly devastating. I had dialogue with the boss at Custom Cages and he accepted that their description of the purchased item was not correct. At one point, I had a mind to pursue them through the courts for consequential losses, but life is too short for that kind of hassle. We reached an agreement which saw some additional work being done on the cage in the past month or so. In short, we have gone the whole-hog and had the cage re-designed (adding more structure) with a view to getting this bespoke item internationally certified at MIRA. We've added a cross diagonal in the main hoop as well as some A-pillar stays to the door bars and a few gussets here and there. Custom Cages paid for the development and design work and provided the additional tubular members free of charge, whilst I am standing the cost of the MIRA certification (£850) and the subsequent MSA acceptance fee (£300). What we now have (as of this morning) is the only properly certified multipoint cage in existence for a LWB quattro. The only issue is that the car isn't going to be quite as easy to get in and out of. However, it has made a fairly safe shell and cage into a very safe shell/cage and one which should be capable of competing anywhere in the world. The additional lamps have been wired up now too and we are good to go! It's been almost five years since we the inception of this project - a long and sometimes pain road to get here... So, Sunday 27th October sees the unveiling of this car on the Galloway Hills Rally (http://www.gallowayhillsrally.co.uk), not too far from Carlisle if anyone is interested! They even have a spectator super special stage (with an over-and-under bridge) lined-up for us this year. I was sent these photos this morning from the motorsports workshop - I just hope we can both get the cars to the finish in the same condition as you see them here. Kris (pictured) is responsible for building both these cars and he is taking the Lancia out on the rally too. Wish me luck!! __________________ ________ John

21-10-13, 07:04 PM	#183
Puglife ==>PUGSPORT!<== Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Leyland Posts: 1,544	I won't go into too much detail but when I worked for a well known WRC team we had massive issues with Custom Cages.. Mainly poor quality (none conformed) materials which didn't pass the specification checks for composition or mechanical properties. Custom cages don't have a quality procedure in place and the standard of cages and materials used are not as advertised, just because they are a well established firm means they stay in business. Glad to hear it is sorted now John. __________________ 1986 UR Quattro - (1982) Lombard RAC Group 4 recreation - #24 H.Demuth/J.Daniels 1981 VW mk1 golf GTi - now 5cylinder and RWD.

21-10-13, 07:11 PM	#184
LYT4X Younger than JJ ! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 651	You guys are both close enough to come and watch the rally! Set the alarms for Sunday morning and come and say hello!!! __________________ ________ John

21-10-13, 07:27 PM	#185
LYT4X Younger than JJ ! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 651	Here's another picture of the finished cage: __________________ ________ John Last edited by LYT4X; 22-10-13 at 12:07 PM.

28-10-13, 12:43 AM	#188
LYT4X Younger than JJ ! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 651	I guess the pictures can speak for themselves! We finished the first event and we weren't last. A very tough rally with only a couple of stages which made us really smile. Most of the stages were trecherous and there were a few moments where I thought it was the last of our day. However, the car was faultless which was more than I could say for myself. Two service halts were spent drinking coffee and waiting to get back in and set-off again. __________________ ________ John

21-10-13, 07:00 PM	#182
inne3quattro Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 325	Finally ! And good luck !

21-10-13, 07:44 PM	#186
jamesfuller Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Northamptonshire now Posts: 174	I take my hat off to you, your patience and general outlook is to be admired! It certainly looks the part, I assume you now have to get in and then put on your crash helmet! Good luck with the rally! A great shame I will not be anywhere near or I would have been there spectating.

28-10-13, 06:58 AM	#189
john johnson Moderator of sausages Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: sheffield Posts: 13,331	Epic pictures there JC ... Well done __________________ Mr OCD http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/jsquatts/ Daily rs4 b7 with buckets that play havoc with my piles And if you are reading this as James may would say ' you're a cock '

28-10-13, 08:07 AM	#190
inne3quattro Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 325	Fantastic pictures, car looks very well indeed.