90Q 10V Idle/timing issues.

[madwolf_uk]

Brief history, when purchased car ran with rough idle upto 1500 RPM approx, above that revs and drives fine.

Suspected air leak so split the IM and changed the 2 hose's to the IAC ( 1 had a piece of copper pipe shoved in it ), plus a small one at the back down to the IM ( cracked), filled a hole in the side of one of the pipes on the IAC, changed 2 crank breather pipes (leaking), cleaned everything up and re assembled with new gaskets.

Still sounds like its got an air leak but cant see where from...

Also found out the Dizzy had been changed as it wasnt running so timing probably out, got the info and checked the crank and cam marks, lined the dizzy up and it doesnt run. Turn the Dizzy about 15 degrees anti clockwise and she runs, all be it a touch worse than before. Since found out the Dizzy is from a KV engine, this is an NG, dont know if this is an issue though, marks on the Dizzy different maybe?

Spark plugs look ok, new rotor arm and dizzy cap fitted, one lead has a little nick in the outer insulation, taped up for now, leads look new, Knock sensor outer insulation is peeling away in various places, also taped up for now, MFTS appears to be playing up as temp gauge only works half the time.

Dont know how relevant the above bits are, but not quite sure where to progress from here, any help appreciated please

[msh]

First, get distributor from NG/NF/AAR, something like that. Distributor from KV have vacuum and centrifugal advance mechanisms and u don't need that, because it's done by ignition ECU. Second, I'm new to R5 but I think that distributor mark must fit when camshaft is in opposite position - whan crankshaft is with mark but camshaft isn't. Maybe I'm wrong. Because I have experience with R4 [actually I was able to set distributor precisely when assembling my 3A without running it] I did just as u - only after some unsuccessful starts and timing corrections it managed to run @ ~500 rpm, then I turned earlier ignition until it started to run well.
How about knock sensor itself - did it have any cracks? If it's cracked, u can throw it out and get new one, it isn't expensive, I bought mine for something like 50 pounds, only when installing, that bolt must be tightened "with feel" - autodata states 10-15 nm, if I remember correctly. Difference - my former 3A, which never run very vell, without knock sensor at that time was able for 130-140 kmph vmax, with brend new knock sensor 170 kmph

[madwolf_uk]

Originally Posted by msh

First, get distributor from NG/NF/AAR, something like that. Distributor from KV have vacuum and centrifugal advance mechanisms and u don't need that, because it's done by ignition ECU. Second, I'm new to R5 but I think that distributor mark must fit when camshaft is in opposite position - whan crankshaft is with mark but camshaft isn't. Maybe I'm wrong. Because I have experience with R4 [actually I was able to set distributor precisely when assembling my 3A without running it] I did just as u - only after some unsuccessful starts and timing corrections it managed to run @ ~500 rpm, then I turned earlier ignition until it started to run well.
How about knock sensor itself - did it have any cracks? If it's cracked, u can throw it out and get new one, it isn't expensive, I bought mine for something like 50 pounds, only when installing, that bolt must be tightened "with feel" - autodata states 10-15 nm, if I remember correctly. Difference - my former 3A, which never run very vell, without knock sensor at that time was able for 130-140 kmph vmax, with brend new knock sensor 170 kmph

Struggling to get the right distributor for it, but also getting conflicting advice about the KV one working or not.. have tried it 180 degress out but that doesnt seem to work any better either.

Knock sensor and dodgy lead will get replaced, just cant see either of them impacting on the idle issue, and want to save funds till thats sorted really, just in case i need em!

Anyone any other ideas for me? Have tried the ISV off my S2 and that seemed to make a marginal difference, but that could also be from cleaning the air filter and tightening a couple of clips as well.....

[msh]

If u can't set ignition by using marks, then adjust it with feel - it's not 10vt/20v/20vt where certain degrees are needed otherwise there will be no spark

Brand new knock sensor will not help with iddle, it will make it run better above iddle speed.

How about nozzles - have u checked them?

[madwolf_uk]

Originally Posted by msh

If u can't set ignition by using marks, then adjust it with feel - it's not 10vt/20v/20vt where certain degrees are needed otherwise there will be no spark

Brand new knock sensor will not help with iddle, it will make it run better above iddle speed.

How about nozzles - have u checked them?

I assume you mean injectors? Havent checked them, but seeing as there fine above 1500 RPM id imagine they should be ok below that as well?

Hopefully getting use of a timing gun this weekend to put the timing issue aside once and for all....

[msh]

Yeah, injectors, nozzles or whatever these can be called. Well, age doesn't come alone... If injectors are spraying fuel badly, then there will be rough iddle just because fuel doesn't mix with air as good as needed. Is there any difference in iddle roughness when engine is cold or hot? Heat helps fuel to vaporize... Actually, with such old car there is need to pull out all injectors not just to check how good they are working but also is fuel metering unit [or whatever it's called, I forgot that name] ok, because it can wear out and couse, let's say, one injector to spray less fuel - altough looks like u guys there have cars with less mileage than we here Only problem is that upper part of intake manifold must be removed to do it. I'll today change valve cover gasket of my NG [before that I'll paint valve cover and that piece of intake manifold] and after washing a lot of oil and dirt off the lower portion of intake manifold I'll pull all injectors out just to check if there is all ok.

If u can get timing gun, that's ok, without it it's possible to adjust just as well than with it, with some knowledge, of course. But don't forget when u will get NG distributor, u will have to do it again

[BW2309]

On the NG (2309cc with KE-3 jetronic??) the timing is totally ECU controlled. All you do is set crank and cam to TDC then fit the dizzy so the scribe line on the hall sendor wheel lines up exactly with the corresponding mark on the dizzy body. The ECU does the rest. If you are having to adjust the dizzy to get it running the dizzy is wrong mate. KV no good at that's just K-Jet, not KE-3.
May be difficult to get one but you really could do with one!! The retry your idle issues. Again, the idle is ECU controlled and so needs basic setting. Best way is with VAG com on, fuse in top of fuel pump relay (this initiates basic settings) then adjust idle and fuel by the measured block values on VAG com. If you try adjusting the idle/fuelling without doing this the ECU gets confused and will fight you! Make sure also that the idle switch on the throttle valve is working. If it is not then the idle will stay high and the revs will take a while to drop when you nrelease the throttle as it needs to shut fuel supply and heavily retard the timing - again, possibly linked dizzy fault!!!

Hope this helps....

[msh]

Originally Posted by BW2309

On the NG (2309cc with KE-3 jetronic??) the timing is totally ECU controlled. All you do is set crank and cam to TDC then fit the dizzy so the scribe line on the hall sendor wheel lines up exactly with the corresponding mark on the dizzy body. The ECU does the rest. If you are having to adjust the dizzy to get it running the dizzy is wrong mate. KV no good at that's just K-Jet, not KE-3.

But I have NG distributor and I got the same problem, how about that?

[BW2309]

Originally Posted by msh

But I have NG distributor and I got the same problem, how about that?

Is it fitted to an NG?? If so you then need to look, as I said, at idle switch and set the car up, as I said.

[msh]

Of course NG. Only I yesterday started to think that ISV maybe isn't working, but I'll check it today, that's the reason why I'm doing all this. And if it isn't working, it doesn't affect speed nor acceleration in my case