Ethanol in Petrol

Ringmaster · 20-05-11, 09:49 AM

Hi all,

I was reading today about plans to double the Ethanol content in petrol.

Sounds like ethanol can cause severe engine wear/damage over a relatively short time, and there should be additives to offset this, but the oil companies won't be making any allowances for older cars when blending their fuel in future.

What did concern me was that even relatively modern engines, from around 10 years old can be liable to ethanol damage.

Does anyone know more about this? How durable do you think our Audis' engines will be with ethanol?

John. · 20-05-11, 10:23 AM

http://www.flexfuelkit.com.au/articl...E10/Page1.html
Has been a big problem for certain bikes with glass-fibre fuel tanks. My impression was that it can damage fuel system components like seals/o-rings,brass jets and the likes.?

John.

Ringmaster · 20-05-11, 11:54 AM

Yes John, you're right, fuel tanks were mentioned.

Looks like anything related to the combustion chamber within the engine is at most risk.

darreno'd' · 20-05-11, 03:01 PM

I have first hand experience of e85 turning the pumping unit, and meter of a brand new petrol pump to scrap in two months. It is brilliant at cleaning macrobiological algae from fuel lines,so bearing in mind my audi isn't used on any regular basis I wont be rushing to use it.

ChrisG · 16-06-11, 10:29 AM

except that as I understand it if we use petrol it will be up to 10% ethanol ( from current ?? 5% ) -- end of story !
Millers Oils, and no doubt others, are already doing an additive that helps ( to neutralise?? ) the effects ....but ....
I mean her A4 qts is over ten years old now.....and in MY eyes is still modern !!

The link to flexfuel (above) shows that Audis 1986 onwards should be OK (my 80 Sport is 1985) or is that just what has been tested?

Whilst it may clean out fuel lines ( and dissolves older materials I've read ) it also disolves may of the older metals found in many classics from 1900 to 1980s+ ( copper/tin/white metal etc). Been a bit in the 'Classics' mags recently but teh federation of historic vehicles -- or whatever they call themselves- are about to run some tests - GREAT - but from what I see they are only really interested in pre WW2 stuff anyway.

4v6 · 16-06-11, 10:37 AM

Just another plot by the enviromentalcases to push us towards electric vehicles that currently cant meet the needs of the nation.
In other words, getting us out of our cars and onto our feet.

Dft has noted the problems with 10% ethanol in fuel but i doubt itll make any difference what they say, this green stupidity has gotten up a head of steam and theyll plough on with it whether its the right way to go or not as its all about ideologies and nothing to do with realities.

ChrisG · 16-06-11, 10:47 AM

but what's so green about ethanol - or have I missed something.
ANYWAY....... I was reading about some research on this electric stuff and it is very ungreen !

Apparently the amount of C02 produced when making these batteries is so high that the electric car would have to do 80,ooo miles (iirc) before the break even point as against a petrol car.
As the electric cars are generally short journey they will never get to 80,000 and bound to need another new battery in the interim ( even more CO2)
Apparently the break even point with a small a diesel car is lower still than the petrol.

The article may have been in last Friday's Times.

20vcqdriver · 16-06-11, 11:02 AM

Why does it have to be ethanol, I run 50/50 mix of water/ methanol in mine without issues and cannot see why they see the need to use ehanol when my water injection does a better and cheaper job...

latent · 16-06-11, 12:13 PM

Ethanol has better `cleaning` properties than unleaded, which in short means the materials in the fuel systems & engine combustion chamber don't have the various deposits coating them via the normal fuel running through them and are erroded allot quicker. Same goes for materials used in fuel tanks - mx riders have been mentioned already with their plastic tanks
Ethanol also has a lower calorific value than unleaded. Meaning your engine will run leaner/hotter if you dont have a fuel sensor and ecu to up the fuel pressure, Some countires, Brazil for example want to go to E100, and are forcing this through the manufacturers. But then with all that forest to make biofuels why wouldnt they

20-05-11, 03:01 PM	#4
darreno'd' Mr Sixty Thousand!! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: berkshire Posts: 1,729	I have first hand experience of e85 turning the pumping unit, and meter of a brand new petrol pump to scrap in two months. It is brilliant at cleaning macrobiological algae from fuel lines,so bearing in mind my audi isn't used on any regular basis I wont be rushing to use it. __________________ http://www.oesems.co.uk/

16-06-11, 11:02 AM	#8
20vcqdriver 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Wirral Posts: 3,910	Why does it have to be ethanol, I run 50/50 mix of water/ methanol in mine without issues and cannot see why they see the need to use ehanol when my water injection does a better and cheaper job... __________________ Coupe quattro 1986:-~450bhp + loooong list of mods! Audi A7 Bi-TDI SLine Black edition 2015 mapped to produce 600lb/ft torque! Audi S4 4.2 V8 cabriolet 2004:-

16-06-11, 12:13 PM	#9
latent Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Just outside Nantwich Posts: 216	Ethanol has better `cleaning` properties than unleaded, which in short means the materials in the fuel systems & engine combustion chamber don't have the various deposits coating them via the normal fuel running through them and are erroded allot quicker. Same goes for materials used in fuel tanks - mx riders have been mentioned already with their plastic tanks Ethanol also has a lower calorific value than unleaded. Meaning your engine will run leaner/hotter if you dont have a fuel sensor and ecu to up the fuel pressure, Some countires, Brazil for example want to go to E100, and are forcing this through the manufacturers. But then with all that forest to make biofuels why wouldnt they __________________

20-05-11, 10:23 AM	#2
John. 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Scottish Borders. Posts: 7,529	http://www.flexfuelkit.com.au/articl...E10/Page1.html Has been a big problem for certain bikes with glass-fibre fuel tanks. My impression was that it can damage fuel system components like seals/o-rings,brass jets and the likes.? John.

20-05-11, 11:54 AM	#3
Ringmaster Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,335	Yes John, you're right, fuel tanks were mentioned. Looks like anything related to the combustion chamber within the engine is at most risk.

16-06-11, 10:29 AM	#5
ChrisG Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bracknell, Berks. Posts: 1,465	except that as I understand it if we use petrol it will be up to 10% ethanol ( from current ?? 5% ) -- end of story ! Millers Oils, and no doubt others, are already doing an additive that helps ( to neutralise?? ) the effects ....but .... I mean her A4 qts is over ten years old now.....and in MY eyes is still modern !! The link to flexfuel (above) shows that Audis 1986 onwards should be OK (my 80 Sport is 1985) or is that just what has been tested? Whilst it may clean out fuel lines ( and dissolves older materials I've read ) it also disolves may of the older metals found in many classics from 1900 to 1980s+ ( copper/tin/white metal etc). Been a bit in the 'Classics' mags recently but teh federation of historic vehicles -- or whatever they call themselves- are about to run some tests - GREAT - but from what I see they are only really interested in pre WW2 stuff anyway.

16-06-11, 10:37 AM	#6
4v6 Ex Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,565	Just another plot by the enviromentalcases to push us towards electric vehicles that currently cant meet the needs of the nation. In other words, getting us out of our cars and onto our feet. Dft has noted the problems with 10% ethanol in fuel but i doubt itll make any difference what they say, this green stupidity has gotten up a head of steam and theyll plough on with it whether its the right way to go or not as its all about ideologies and nothing to do with realities.

16-06-11, 10:47 AM	#7
ChrisG Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bracknell, Berks. Posts: 1,465	but what's so green about ethanol - or have I missed something. ANYWAY....... I was reading about some research on this electric stuff and it is very ungreen ! Apparently the amount of C02 produced when making these batteries is so high that the electric car would have to do 80,ooo miles (iirc) before the break even point as against a petrol car. As the electric cars are generally short journey they will never get to 80,000 and bound to need another new battery in the interim ( even more CO2) Apparently the break even point with a small a diesel car is lower still than the petrol. The article may have been in last Friday's Times.