how much 2 cut off my panhard rod on 40mm? - Page 2

SteveT63 · 20-05-13, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmyB4

quite simply, if a panhard rod is at a 10 degree angle and when lowered a 9 degree angle , YOU WILL HAVE MOVED THE WHOLE ENTIRE AXLE 8MM TO THE LEFT .

i know i am a newbie , but if you dont no what your on about , get out a tape measure . you will be confusing people .

IF YOU LOWER YOUR CAR , ANY CAR ( with a pan hard rod ) THE CARS REAR AXLE WILL BE OUT OF LINE WITH THE FRONT .

i am explaining it well , and nothing you say can defy physics i am afraid . cheers

Are you 12?

lefthooker · 20-05-13, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveT63

Are you 12?

If he is, school started 20 minutes ago.

styler · 20-05-13, 12:13 PM

like i said i must not be explaining it properly, its geometry, yes, the axle will be towards one side more than the other, but the wheels will still be parallel to the body of the car so it wont crab... i think i need to draw ya a picture!!!

a 3 wheeler front wheel is about 2 foot out of line with the rear, and i never see them crabbing... its not physics its geometry....

Hanuman · 21-05-13, 02:38 AM

In reality, the original setup allowed full travel of the suspension and the mounting of the panhard was sufficient to cater for this.
By fitting lowering springs, the suspension is being limited a little in its travel, and rides lower, but will still operate in a range covered by the original setup.

So, any crabbing is probably down to another problem

timmyB4 · 21-05-13, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real MSH!

In reality, the original setup allowed full travel of the suspension and the mounting of the panhard was sufficient to cater for this.
By fitting lowering springs, the suspension is being limited a little in its travel, and rides lower, but will still operate in a range covered by the original setup.

So, any crabbing is probably down to another problem

will post photos , as this would be easier , cheeers

andydunn2 · 21-05-13, 10:43 AM

If the panhard rod was straight across then yes it would move the opposing wheel out BUT it isn't it is at an angle which displaces the lateral movement. If it didn't then every time even a standard suspension moved up and down it would push the opposing wheel out.

If the lateral movement wasn't displaced by the angled panhard then severe bush wear would be evident on the trailing arms and potentially flexing damage on the rear strut top mounts on a lowered suspension setup it is possible the panhard would restrict all compression movement.

Keep in mind there are front wheel drive Audis out there with 80mm plus suspension drops so if the panhard was pushing out the rear wheel these things would be going round in circles....

The answer to the riddle is the angled panhard...........simples

styler · 21-05-13, 01:05 PM

figure A is standard set up,
figure B is EXAGGERATED view with load or lowered,

blue line represent angle of wheel travel (straight line)
blue lines on figure B are parallel, parallel lines never meet so crabbing will not happen,

adjusting the panhard rod will locate the axle back to the original distance from each arch, it will not cause or correct crabbing,

4v6 · 21-05-13, 01:42 PM

Done a quick'n dirty check to determine how far it actually does shove it out by.
Smarter folks than me could do this via purely mathematical means, im a bit of a thicky with trig so i did it my waaaaay.

Using a 1 metre long rod (i hadnt anything longer so itll do) pivoted at the right representing its fixed point on the chassis, left side is the swingy upsy downsy part on the axle end.

Set centrally on the 100mm line to represent a datum/start point.

Swing the rod upwards/downwards by 50mm representing a common change in height.

Actual deviation for a 1metre long rod is around 1mm.
Shorter would yield a greater deviation longer will be less and the audi one is definitely longer than 1 metre so will be less than my 1mm figure.
Add in the diagonal component and its not worth the worry imho.

timmyB4 · 21-05-13, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by styler

figure A is standard set up,
figure B is EXAGGERATED view with load or lowered,

blue line represent angle of wheel travel (straight line)
blue lines on figure B are parallel, parallel lines never meet so crabbing will not happen,

adjusting the panhard rod will locate the axle back to the original distance from each arch, it will not cause or correct crabbing,

fugure "B" show what a cut and shut car drives like down the rd . hardly a sporty stance improved handling situation after lowering surely ?? come on , i have heard of numerous people doing this PANHARD shortening on fords and volvos etc . why should AUDI be different .

This is constantly overlooked by 99 out of a 100 motoring enthauiasts at a guess . not good . cheers photos tomorrow .

lefthooker · 21-05-13, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmyB4

fugure "B" show what a cut and shut car drives like down the rd . hardly a sporty stance improved handling situation after lowering surely ?? come on , i have heard of numerous people doing this PANHARD shortening on fords and volvos etc . why should AUDI be different .

This is constantly overlooked by 99 out of a 100 motoring enthauiasts at a guess . not good . cheers photos tomorrow .

The trouble with a lot of this sort of stuff is, it's all based on "my mate down the pub reckons"
instead of fact.

4v6 has taken the trouble to set up a simple experiment to show the facts. I'd be tempted to accept his findings.

20-05-13, 12:13 PM	#13
styler Moderator Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Donegal, Ireland Posts: 3,443	like i said i must not be explaining it properly, its geometry, yes, the axle will be towards one side more than the other, but the wheels will still be parallel to the body of the car so it wont crab... i think i need to draw ya a picture!!! a 3 wheeler front wheel is about 2 foot out of line with the rear, and i never see them crabbing... its not physics its geometry.... __________________ CRASH VALLEY CUSTOMS get 'er done... Last edited by styler; 20-05-13 at 12:21 PM. Reason: im 13

21-05-13, 02:38 AM	#14
Hanuman Trickster Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Heckling from the cheap seats, Phnom Penh, KoW Posts: 7,006	In reality, the original setup allowed full travel of the suspension and the mounting of the panhard was sufficient to cater for this. By fitting lowering springs, the suspension is being limited a little in its travel, and rides lower, but will still operate in a range covered by the original setup. So, any crabbing is probably down to another problem __________________ I wish they would keep the damned Chinese away now that I can go home, so that I can enjoy Fish amok and a draught Angkor

21-05-13, 10:43 AM	#16
andydunn2 Ragtop Collector Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Chorley Posts: 1,463	If the panhard rod was straight across then yes it would move the opposing wheel out BUT it isn't it is at an angle which displaces the lateral movement. If it didn't then every time even a standard suspension moved up and down it would push the opposing wheel out. If the lateral movement wasn't displaced by the angled panhard then severe bush wear would be evident on the trailing arms and potentially flexing damage on the rear strut top mounts on a lowered suspension setup it is possible the panhard would restrict all compression movement. Keep in mind there are front wheel drive Audis out there with 80mm plus suspension drops so if the panhard was pushing out the rear wheel these things would be going round in circles.... The answer to the riddle is the angled panhard...........simples __________________ "Earl" 1998 2.8 V6 Cabriolet "The Duke" 1997 2.6 V6 Cabriolet (Sold....sadly) Project "Best of Both Worlds" 1995 S2 Quattro Cabriolet

21-05-13, 01:05 PM	#17
styler Moderator Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Donegal, Ireland Posts: 3,443	figure A is standard set up, figure B is EXAGGERATED view with load or lowered, blue line represent angle of wheel travel (straight line) blue lines on figure B are parallel, parallel lines never meet so crabbing will not happen, adjusting the panhard rod will locate the axle back to the original distance from each arch, it will not cause or correct crabbing, __________________ CRASH VALLEY CUSTOMS get 'er done...

21-05-13, 01:42 PM	#18
4v6 Ex Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,565	Done a quick'n dirty check to determine how far it actually does shove it out by. Smarter folks than me could do this via purely mathematical means, im a bit of a thicky with trig so i did it my waaaaay. Using a 1 metre long rod (i hadnt anything longer so itll do) pivoted at the right representing its fixed point on the chassis, left side is the swingy upsy downsy part on the axle end. Set centrally on the 100mm line to represent a datum/start point. Swing the rod upwards/downwards by 50mm representing a common change in height. Actual deviation for a 1metre long rod is around 1mm. Shorter would yield a greater deviation longer will be less and the audi one is definitely longer than 1 metre so will be less than my 1mm figure. Add in the diagonal component and its not worth the worry imho.