Classic Audi Technical Mech/Tech Engine » Won't Start

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 13-07-20, 11:26 PM   #11
BackintheFold
Grown up member
Classic Audi Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Near an MB ur quattro
Posts: 480
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isimmo View Post
I wouldn’t do anything until you’ve confirmed the timing belt hasn’t skipped. That’s ground zero.
Am as sure as I can be, that timing belt hasn’t slipped. Crank and camshaft are at TDC according to markers, piston 1 confirmed at top of stroke (thin paintbrush in cylinder 1 with spark plug out), and cam lobes pointing up so valves on (1) are both closed.

As far as I can tell, the dizzy rotor (EDIT-ie, the rotating part-the rotor and shaft) has moved (EDIT /slipped). The dizzy body is rock solid, but the rotor arm no longer points anywhere near plug 1. I’ll remove it tomorrow and see if it looks knackered.

Last edited by BackintheFold; 14-07-20 at 01:46 PM.
BackintheFold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-07-20, 08:30 AM   #12
mikes2
4 ring whore!
Classic Audi Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Polmont
Posts: 2,063
Default

There is a slot in the shaft of the distributor for the rotor arm to fit into. It really shouldn't move.

if it was me I would

set crankshaft mark to the 0 in the bellhousing window. this will put #1 at tdc
check cam pulley - there's a small mark on the rear which should line up with the top corner of the cam cover. you'll see it through the rear window of the timing belt cover

If this all checks out, your timing is correct. If it doesn't you'll be 180 degrees out

rotor arm should just pull off. Sounds like it's for the skip or it's not been pushed down far enough. Either way I'd replace it
__________________
1991 90 quattro 20v sport
1988 90 quattro 2.6
mikes2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-07-20, 08:31 AM   #13
Colin Aitchison
Senior Member
Classic Audi Club Member
 
Colin Aitchison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Back home in Tillicoultry
Posts: 1,167
Default

Now you have found the 0 mark on the flywheel, take a bit of sand paper or something similar and clean the 0 mark of surface rust and add a spot of white paint to the 0 mark, much easier to find next time.

With the flywheel 0 mark lined up with bell housing dose the cam line up with its timing mark?
Is the distributor pointing at spark plug No. 1 now?
Colin Aitchison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-07-20, 12:01 PM   #14
BackintheFold
Grown up member
Classic Audi Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Near an MB ur quattro
Posts: 480
Default

am in the office today, so will have another bash at this tonight.
I did scratch the 0 mark clean, and dabbed it with Magnolia paint as i had no white.. That will help in the future!

The rotor arm is firmly in the slot, i'm thinking the gear that connects the dizzy to the cam is slipping.
As above, the engine itself is all set at TDC. Camshaft, pistons, flywheel, cam wheel all pointing to 0.
I wil check if my crank pulley also has the mark on it, but even so, mechanically, i think the engine is all set.
The body of the dizzy is also fine. It just seems that the shaft has slipped. I will see if it has a pin holding the gear to the shaft tonight, If that has sheared then this all makes sense.
I am also pleased to read that Phil Payne's ECU codes refer to three possibilities for the error code I got:


2113 Hall Sender (G40)
Break or short-checked-all wiring is good
Defective Hall sender-checked-all voltages are good
Distributor misaligned-Ah here we go....
BackintheFold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-07-20, 01:24 PM   #15
mikes2
4 ring whore!
Classic Audi Club Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Polmont
Posts: 2,063
Default

Whatever you do, don't rely on any marks at the front of the engine. vibration damper and lower timing belt front cover have marks which should be ignored

You may well be looking at another dizzy if the drive gear is damaged.
__________________
1991 90 quattro 20v sport
1988 90 quattro 2.6
mikes2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-07-20, 07:57 PM   #16
BackintheFold
Grown up member
Classic Audi Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Near an MB ur quattro
Posts: 480
Default

Okey dokey. So. Took distributor off. No obvious damage. The gear is held in place on the shaft by a solid pin which *appears* solid. Have been chatting with Tractor Dave, who suggested trying to knock pin out to see if it is still
Complete-or if it has sheared so the gear is held in place only by friction.
I would be interested to do that, but only with a aspire dizzy in my hand in case it all goes wrong.

All I can think is that the pin has sheared allowing the shaft to spin-or the dizzy jumped it’s gearing against the cam shaft. No damage on the dizzy gearing or visible on the cam gear though.

One other possibility is that I didn’t push the rotor arm in to the gap in the shaft to
Line it up when replacing the timing belt. That would allow the rotor arm to slip round too, and gives a third option.
I’ve been working on cars for 35 years, so I’d like to say that’s simply not possible- but if it is all that’s left...

At this stage, I’m making sure I keep a 13mm spanner in the car in case whatever has slipped slips again. If anyone has a good spare dizzy to sell, please let me know and I can then investigate further. I’m not entirely happy to have fixed the problem without knowing the cause, but such is life. I’m glad the engine was totally undamaged.
If it is ever hard to start I will know where to look first!

Edit- I replaced the dizzy timed correctly, and the car fired up first time no problems.
__________________
1988 MB ur Quattro
2006 A3

Last edited by BackintheFold; 14-07-20 at 08:28 PM.
BackintheFold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-07-20, 03:32 AM   #17
Colin Aitchison
Senior Member
Classic Audi Club Member
 
Colin Aitchison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Back home in Tillicoultry
Posts: 1,167
Default

My thoughts is with no physical damage to the engine or timing problems and the ECU giving you a fault code (2113 Hall Sender G40), it may have been a wiring connection problem, as you have disconnected the wiring plugs to do your testing and reconnected them you may have inadvertently cleared the fault by making a better connection in the reconnecting of the plugs.
Colin Aitchison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-07-20, 07:49 AM   #18
BackintheFold
Grown up member
Classic Audi Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Near an MB ur quattro
Posts: 480
Default

The first thing I did (simplest job) was clean the contacts.
But that was before I re-aligned the dizzy. This is the third option in PP’s list of hall sensor problems and that is what fixed it.
The WR and MB ecus have great flexibility in misaligned dizzys, but this was just too far at around 100 degrees out.
I will check later if it’s possible to fit the dizzy cap with the rotor arm NOT in the slot. I suspect it won’t be, which will point to either the dizzy jumping the gears, or the pin holding the gear to the rotor shaft having sheared, and slipped.

EDIT-You can't mis-fit the rotor arm. It has to be pushed down on to the spindle properly, in the correct location in the slot, or you can not put the cap on.
__________________
1988 MB ur Quattro
2006 A3

Last edited by BackintheFold; 15-07-20 at 12:50 PM.
BackintheFold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-20, 10:30 AM   #19
BackintheFold
Grown up member
Classic Audi Club Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Near an MB ur quattro
Posts: 480
Default

25 miles later, no change.
I have also checked the timing, and the flywheel, camgear and rotor arm remain at TDC as set.

Mysterious!
I will keep a 13mm spanner in the car so i can reset the timing at the roadside if needed.
__________________
1988 MB ur Quattro
2006 A3
BackintheFold is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:56 PM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2007-2008 Classic Audi | Site by Roadrunna