Classic Audi Technical Mech/Tech Engine » Engine overhaul, maybe more

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Old 17-12-17, 04:41 PM   #1
massier1993
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Default Engine overhaul, maybe more

Good evening,

Just got myself a 85' Coupe Quattro non-turbo, it's at 205k on the clock, so I'd like to give the engine a good going over. Now I've been researching how much power you can get from these motors (still unsure on the answer). But I've been looking into big valves, cams, manifolds and intake, and maybe forging for adding a turbo later! I'm abit unsure what I'm wanting at the moment!

So my questions are;

If I go and stay Naturally aspirated, what is the highest, but safest HP achievable, and can someone list the modifications and where to go...

If I fully forge and turbo to 350-400HP, who is the best person/company to go to for this, and what sort of final cost is it? I'm used to turboing Honda engines so no idea on Audi costs.
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Old 17-12-17, 06:43 PM   #2
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If I go and stay Naturally aspirated, what is the highest, but safest HP achievable, and can someone list the modifications and where to go....
I’d be very interested to hear about this as usually a swap to a x flow 20v 7a is the recommended route. I’ve got a KV and a KK sitting around unused
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Old 17-12-17, 06:48 PM   #3
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I’d be very interested to hear about this as usually a swap to a x flow 20v 7a is the recommended route. I’ve got a KV and a KK sitting around unused
Alot of people say use the AAN engine, but I only want 350HP odd like the A2 Group B Quattro, supposedly according to Audi 350HP is about as much as you'll get from a 10V?

But at the moment I'm just gauging interest, If it's under 5k to turbo, I'd be happy. If not be nice challenge to see how much I can get from a naturally aspirated engine.
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Old 17-12-17, 07:04 PM   #4
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To get anywhere near that target you'll surely have to go down a turbo route? If you are sticking with contemporary engines from the Audi stable the 2.2 20vt from an S2/ urS4/S6 is the most trodden path, although there are a myriad of 1.8 20vt projects too, usually sourced from A4 etc.

To put into perspective a normally aspirated 5cyl 2.2 KV well fettled with a port/polish, big valves, aggressive cam etc is good for 170/180, hence why the 2.3 20v 7A engine is also a common transplant, as you get that "out of the box"...
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Old 17-12-17, 07:08 PM   #5
massier1993
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To get anywhere near that target you'll surely have to go down a turbo route? If you are sticking with contemporary engines from the Audi stable the 2.2 20vt from an S2/ urS4/S6 is the most trodden path, although there are a myriad of 1.8 20vt projects too, usually sourced from A4 etc.

To put into perspective a normally aspirated 5cyl 2.2 KV well fettled with a port/polish, big valves, aggressive cam etc is good for 170/180, hence why the 2.3 20v 7A engine is also a common transplant, as you get that "out of the box"...

This is the plan if possible, take my 2.2 10v and add a turbo, I'm sure it's been done, really don't want to 20V for some reason I don't know, maybe I'm after a challenge lol

However if N/A be good fun to aim for 170/180HP
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Old 17-12-17, 07:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massier1993 View Post
....but I only want 350HP odd like the A2 Group B Quattro, supposedly according to Audi 350HP is about as much as you'll get from a 10V?
............If it's under 5k to turbo, I'd be happy.
I doubt it cost Audi under 5k to squeeze out 350 ponies?!
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Old 17-12-17, 07:21 PM   #7
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i hope you can stay as enthusiastic throughout the project, there are others around here better placed to advise on the best starting point / path to take, as you have probably rightly identified already though, turbo-ing your existing lump may be the most difficult way forward. Even if it is possible, a better "bang for buck" may be achieved from a more mainstream choice...!

Having said that, I wish you all the best with it Looking forward to the build thread
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Old 17-12-17, 07:27 PM   #8
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I've a gti engineering kv that apparently is good for 190. That's having the head done and a capacity increase. It's not in a car so I can't dyno it.
The 20 v 7a with same treatment as rated at 200 bhp-have one of those still on a car that I'm selling for a client. Has all the paper work stating what was done.
I can dig it out and photocopy the spec if anyone is interested
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Old 17-12-17, 07:49 PM   #9
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Just a few random thoughts

Turbo on the KV- not insurmountable. It becomes 'loosely' similar to an MB engine which was rated at 200bhp ish.
Same basic components, compression likely too high if also seeking some biggish boost. Existing injection system reaching the limit of controlling the fuel.
So add in a decent EFI setup. Different pistons, exhaust manifold, turbo, wastegate, downpipe...

The EX-manifold alone will chew up a fifth of the 5k budget.


Turnkey engine option? Well, sadly a lot of turbo 10v engines got dumped a long while back, and they'd put you in the 200bhp range, unless also adding lots of work.
20v turbo will better provide the flexibility in modifications, plus 'been-there-done-that-knowledge'

Old drivetrain. There's a bit of info recently about the effects of the extra torque at those levels on otherwise standard transmission...
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Old 17-12-17, 09:30 PM   #10
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For normally aspirated power on your KV Mellis is right so expect max 180 bhp with a heavily modified head, will probably need bigger injectors as you'll be maxing out the duty cycle of the standard ones if they go that far which i doubt, you'll need exhaust improvements and radiator so this is not going to be cheap.

There is a normally aspirated 90 7A sport around which visits ADI most years that pushes out 260 bhp, that's not a typo, with a massively reworked block head ecu etc etc.It's quick but seriously drinks fuel.

The best bet i'm afraid is an ABY or an AAN 20Vt that's going to cost you a minimum of 3k just to buy the standard engine ecu, injectors ancillaries then there's a custom exhaust on top so your looking at best part of 4k this route.These parts are getting expensive now.

To get 350bhp from the ABY or AAN it needs to be RS2'd. You'll need injectors a chipset RS2 K24 7200 turbo and exh manifold that's at least 1.5k from prices around 2 years ago now second hand and will look stock or go with the Volvo K24 7400 turbo circa 400 + used and porsche 944 K26? hot side second hand with a new special made Cartec EVO 2 RS Sport exh manifold thats another 500 new on a group buy and suitable Bosch injectors and the route i'm going down with the S6.So there's at least another 1600 then custom downpipes exhaust and a remap.

Having said all that there is a guy who did a 10v turbo conversion on his B3 coupe quattro, just need to find the thread.But it's your worst nightmare.


10V Turbo B3 some of you will recognise it.




Last edited by vorsprung durch technik; 17-12-17 at 09:47 PM.
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