Re-shim tappets

Sie! · 30-09-20, 07:06 AM

Morning all,

After reading another thread on here about tappet shims/hydraulic lifters (thanks SPYROS29), mine have been doing my head in for a while now and believe its high time I got to sorting them out.

Its the 4-cyl DS/Carb engine, am I correct in thinking the tool I need to depress the buckets is Hazet 2574-1, paired with some tappet shim pliers? I don't want to be removing the cam if I can avoid it...

Many thanks,

Simon

Hanuman · 30-09-20, 07:54 AM

http://www.classic-audi.co.uk/forum/...hybrid&t=32846

I have both. The pliers can be ignored, if you have a good strong magnetic pickup. But oil suction will hold the shim in the bucket.

The job is quick, on a WR with these. Normally I’d do it all in under an hour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanuman

I have both the bucket depressor and the oversize 'tweezers' for picking the shims out. I'm in Poole. They could be loaned. I travel to gatwick frequently. If that is of any use?

But they aren't for sale!

Edit: fwiw. I bought these through a friendly dealership a long while back.

Alternatively, I did see a number of the more frequently used tools available through a Dutch site.

Sie! · 30-09-20, 08:10 AM

That’s actually the thread I saw when I did a search, very informative thank you!

Is the tool the same for both 4 & 5 cylinder, I assume it is? If so I’ll get one ordered later today.

Sie! · 30-09-20, 08:49 AM

Basically this is the item I’ve seen...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154045229910

2574 and 2574-1 seem different shapes, I’ve no idea if they will both do the same job.

Recon the eBay item will do for me?

Colin Aitchison · 30-09-20, 09:03 AM

Sorry, but I had the tool 2078 and sold it, 2078 worked a treat but found it very difficult to get the shim out of the top of the tappet bucket, save your money buying tool 2078, measure your tappet clearance, remove the cam, renew all worn shims and replace the cam this works better for me, it may sound like the long way round but wait till you have a couple of shims you can't get out and have to remove the cam anyway.

Sie! · 30-09-20, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colin Aitchison

Sorry, but I had the tool 2078 and sold it, 2078 worked a treat but found it very difficult to get the shim out of the top of the tappet bucket, save your money buying tool 2078, measure your tappet clearance, remove the cam, renew all worn shims and replace the cam this works better for me, it may sound like the long way round but wait till you have a couple of shims you can't get out and have to remove the cam anyway.

I was afraid someone was about to say that!

I'm skeptical about my ability in not cocking up taking the camshaft out... Is it a relatively simple task? The bit that gets me is that I assume the cam will be pushing down one one or more of the followers when the engine is at TDC, therefore it will naturally want to come away when taking the caps off? Would it need force to depress the same followers when reassembling? Sorry if that sounds skew-whiff or I'm talking absolute rubbish!

I am trying to learn to do things myself as much as possible, cant help but think that's the best way going forward. Not sure any local garage would have a blooming clue about this sort of thing anymore.

Colin Aitchison · 30-09-20, 11:15 AM

Yes you are correct, when refitting the cam you have to lay cam in the head roughly at TDC, refit the cam caps, then the some of the M8 cam cap nut will catch a couple threads, you need to nip up the ones that fit until you get the others on, when you have all M8 nuts on threads go round in an order and give them all a half turn till tight, yes you will push some of the inlet/exhaust valves open but if the pistons are at TDC and the cam is roughly at TDC there is not normally a problem, their is a torque setting for the cam cap M8 nuts and it is not very high (25Nm????)

Groundhog · 30-09-20, 12:03 PM

2078 is the tool you need, the other cranked one Can be used but isn’t ideal. Taking the cam out is an option but not ideal if you are not confident. Obviously not having a box of shims is a draw back as whatever way you do it is going to take time in that you need to measure the clearance, remove the shim, calculate what size shim you need, order shim and hope your sums where right.
Out of interest where are you based? Someone with the tool maybe close to you.

Hanuman · 30-09-20, 04:43 PM

As far as I can tell, they are the same. Maybe check the part numbers of the buckets? The shims across VW/Audi for the 4cyl Golf, and 5 Cyl WR were the same basic dimensions. I have golf shims in mine. mainly due to a machining error by the engine shop. Golf shims go to a slightly great range of thickness.

On the basis of that, I'd be inclined to think the tools are going to be compatible.

before the book was lost, I ran this-

1st time. Measured gaps, and measured shims, and wrote out a table, so that I knew what size shim was located where.
The next time that I went down the route of checking clearances, it was then a simple matter of seeing what the error was, and selecting a shim as needed.
updated my table/list. If needed, I could simply move a correct size shim from one position to another, and over time ended up with a selection of shims. quick and easy job.

The big risk with taking the cam out, IS-

DO NOT GET DISTRACTED & MIX UP/REVERSE POSITION of any cam caps. I've heard of folks installing one 180 degrees out, and cracking the cam cap when they torque them up.

A warm engine is useful for easing the oil suction.

Groundhog · 30-09-20, 07:40 PM

The two tools are different. The cranked one is for early engines and diesels, the strait one for later engines - the heads were slightly different. It has been some years but I’m sure with a bit of jiggling the cranked one can be used on later engines but not vice-versa. Shims are all the same, can’t recall the average sizes being any different between Audi’s and VW’s unless significant head work was carried out. Putting oversize valves in for instance often meant surface grinding the thinnest shims

30-09-20, 04:43 PM	#9
Hanuman Trickster Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Heckling from the cheap seats, Phnom Penh, KoW Posts: 7,006	As far as I can tell, they are the same. Maybe check the part numbers of the buckets? The shims across VW/Audi for the 4cyl Golf, and 5 Cyl WR were the same basic dimensions. I have golf shims in mine. mainly due to a machining error by the engine shop. Golf shims go to a slightly great range of thickness. On the basis of that, I'd be inclined to think the tools are going to be compatible. before the book was lost, I ran this- 1st time. Measured gaps, and measured shims, and wrote out a table, so that I knew what size shim was located where. The next time that I went down the route of checking clearances, it was then a simple matter of seeing what the error was, and selecting a shim as needed. updated my table/list. If needed, I could simply move a correct size shim from one position to another, and over time ended up with a selection of shims. quick and easy job. The big risk with taking the cam out, IS- DO NOT GET DISTRACTED & MIX UP/REVERSE POSITION of any cam caps. I've heard of folks installing one 180 degrees out, and cracking the cam cap when they torque them up. A warm engine is useful for easing the oil suction. __________________ I wish they would keep the damned Chinese away now that I can go home, so that I can enjoy Fish amok and a draught Angkor

30-09-20, 08:10 AM	#3
Sie! Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 825	That’s actually the thread I saw when I did a search, very informative thank you! Is the tool the same for both 4 & 5 cylinder, I assume it is? If so I’ll get one ordered later today.

30-09-20, 08:49 AM	#4
Sie! Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 825	Basically this is the item I’ve seen... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154045229910 2574 and 2574-1 seem different shapes, I’ve no idea if they will both do the same job. Recon the eBay item will do for me?

30-09-20, 09:03 AM	#5
Colin Aitchison Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Back home in Tillicoultry Posts: 1,308	Sorry, but I had the tool 2078 and sold it, 2078 worked a treat but found it very difficult to get the shim out of the top of the tappet bucket, save your money buying tool 2078, measure your tappet clearance, remove the cam, renew all worn shims and replace the cam this works better for me, it may sound like the long way round but wait till you have a couple of shims you can't get out and have to remove the cam anyway.

30-09-20, 11:15 AM	#7
Colin Aitchison Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Back home in Tillicoultry Posts: 1,308	Yes you are correct, when refitting the cam you have to lay cam in the head roughly at TDC, refit the cam caps, then the some of the M8 cam cap nut will catch a couple threads, you need to nip up the ones that fit until you get the others on, when you have all M8 nuts on threads go round in an order and give them all a half turn till tight, yes you will push some of the inlet/exhaust valves open but if the pistons are at TDC and the cam is roughly at TDC there is not normally a problem, their is a torque setting for the cam cap M8 nuts and it is not very high (25Nm????)

30-09-20, 12:03 PM	#8
Groundhog Grown up member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 143	2078 is the tool you need, the other cranked one Can be used but isn’t ideal. Taking the cam out is an option but not ideal if you are not confident. Obviously not having a box of shims is a draw back as whatever way you do it is going to take time in that you need to measure the clearance, remove the shim, calculate what size shim you need, order shim and hope your sums where right. Out of interest where are you based? Someone with the tool maybe close to you.

30-09-20, 07:40 PM	#10
Groundhog Grown up member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 143	The two tools are different. The cranked one is for early engines and diesels, the strait one for later engines - the heads were slightly different. It has been some years but I’m sure with a bit of jiggling the cranked one can be used on later engines but not vice-versa. Shims are all the same, can’t recall the average sizes being any different between Audi’s and VW’s unless significant head work was carried out. Putting oversize valves in for instance often meant surface grinding the thinnest shims