Brexit stuff.

[billy_bunter]

Slight tangent...

Comments made about bias in media etc. Reminded me of this interesting article about Twitter and its effects on the political landscape..

https://prospectmagazine.co.uk/magaz...soned-politics

Another article I read a while ago was about the last American election. This was highlighting the entrenchment of views on either side and the demonising (read hatred/dehumanising) of the opponent. The skill of listening to the opponent and understanding perhaps empathising and thus coming to a compromise has been lost in the whole American political system. Mainly by the media/political system being in the same bed. Sound familiar! The article I linked touches on this to a certain extent and the fact that no one really listens from the other side of a keyboard. They just try to win at any cost.

Also think on the fact that the BBC is no longer 'independent' of Politics. Whether you agreed with its left leaning bias or not (a natural thing to happen as that is mainly the type of person they employ) it was independent of party influence. IMO pretty consitent in how they provided news. No longer, as the top board/management are now political appointments. That was the last 'national' independent news provider left.

I will crawl back into my box.

BTW has anyone got access to ELSAWIN? If so please, please, please PM me

[Ben]

Originally Posted by billy_bunter

Slight tangent...

Comments made about bias in media etc. Reminded me of this interesting article about Twitter and its effects on the political landscape..

https://prospectmagazine.co.uk/magaz...soned-politics

Another article I read a while ago was about the last American election. This was highlighting the entrenchment of views on either side and the demonising (read hatred/dehumanising) of the opponent. The skill of listening to the opponent and understanding perhaps empathising and thus coming to a compromise has been lost in the whole American political system. Mainly by the media/political system being in the same bed. Sound familiar! The article I linked touches on this to a certain extent and the fact that no one really listens from the other side of a keyboard. They just try to win at any cost.

Also think on the fact that the BBC is no longer 'independent' of Politics. Whether you agreed with its left leaning bias or not (a natural thing to happen as that is mainly the type of person they employ) it was independent of party influence. IMO pretty consitent in how they provided news. No longer, as the top board/management are now political appointments. That was the last 'national' independent news provider left.

I will crawl back into my box.

BTW has anyone got access to ELSAWIN? If so please, please, please PM me

If there was a like button, I would have pressed it


This is the point I'm trying to make. No one in charge has said there will be a second referendum, because there won't be. So there's no news there. That leaves us with who has said there will, and why have they said it?

[theschmallfella]

My tuppence worth....

Referendums, in Ireland we've had our fair share, but one in particular comes to mind. The Ratification of the Treaty of Lisbon. In 2008 Ireland was the only country to hold a referendum on the treaty, as all other member states basically signed up without consulting their respective populous. Without getting into the details, because the Irish Constitution would have required changing to ratify the process, the country had to vote. We said no. End of. Or so we thought. The EU immediately put pressure on the Irish government, basically said we were wrong and do it again. So a year later they did, and miraculously we said yes the second time. We were bullied by the EU who, in thinly veiled threats said they'd stop all the funding we'd be getting from them. So our then government bullied us with scare tactics until we changed our minds. The point is, if they want to, they'll have another referendum. Nothing is set in stone, May is saying it won't happen, but how long more will she stay in power. Not long from where my armchair is.

Just saying like...

[John.]

Originally Posted by mackenzie50

Ah...referendums...Painfully I remember how in 2014 we got stuffed by the media manipulation/scaremongering in our own Independence referendum..

On a more basic note- Jeezo...parts are a nightmare to get for our old cars as it is...
How much more difficult/expensive/impossible, will being out of the Euro- union be I wonder??!

…...and it went something like this:
"Vote yes and you'll get booted out the EU and that's going to be bad"
…...so the result was we stayed part of the UK.


As the whole leave idea is now revealing itself to be one big problem after another, then why not have another vote? The population are more informed now than before the Brexit vote?

[William Blyth]

We voted out and that is that!
Lets get back to Audi's, that's what this site is about.

[Jake Blight]

Originally Posted by John.

As the whole leave idea is now revealing itself to be one big problem after another, then why not have another vote? The population are more informed now than before the Brexit vote?

Too late for that. The voters should have made their own investigations into the whole Yes/No vote, not relied of propaganda provided by either side. No one would vote for Hitler just because he offers free chocolate.. Everyone should have looked at the big picture rather than their own little areas. We voted as a free nation. If we are to retain any credibility in the world we now have to stick to the result.

I voted remain but the majority didn't... if they claim they want to change their vote because they were ignorant of the facts that is their mistake and they made the bed so they must now lay in it. There was plenty of notice of the referendum so plenty of time to make an informed decision. Who really believes what Politicians say? So why did the general public believe anything said during the run up?

I haven't commented on Brexit up until now .Yes I believe we have fucked it up for future generations and for that I am pissed off. But remain lost. .. For now all we can do is make the best of it. Who knows where the UK will be in 10 years time? It may be better than we think or it may not. As a footnote though, it's funny how all the MP's that wanted to leave are now nowhere to be seen. They should be brought back and made to do what they promised...

There, that's lightened the mood a bit ... I knew this thread would spontaneous turn into a joke fest.

[Jake Blight]

Thank you. At the end of the day it was a democratic vote and everyone that wanted to vote had the chance. If folk didn't vote (much like the many that don't vote in a general election chose to do) then they have no right to say anything about the final results.

Brexiteers won and Remainers lost. That's democracy for you. Wouldn't happen in Russia or North Korea.

[Ringmaster]

Hello Chaps,

Isn't democracy great?

I never paid much attention to European affairs until I noted the change of name from EEC to EU. At that point I started doing a bit more reading up about it and asked my Dad about the first referendum. On the face of it the European idea seemed noble enough, peace, trade and goodwill to all men and Britain was in economic trouble, like most countries who wanted in.

Over time I have listened to the experiences of former EU employees, all of whom enjoyed their time working for the EU but admitted to its needless wastefulness. Then I observed what happened to Ireland, which for me confirmed much of the criticism. We have enough waste and problems with our own systems of national government let alone need another layer at European level.

No one really knows what will happen when we leave, its never been done before. I'm sure there will be some chaos somewhere, come the time, but the UK is a significant economy of 63 million people. We have something to offer the world. This is something the doomsayers refuse to contemplate.

Heck, the whole world can't easily bring the various pariah nations to their knees with economic sanctions, so I think the UK will be fine.

As for the comments about the press... well we know each news source has its own bias. Its been like that since the year dot. It's funny how different people can have differing views on the same thing. My colleagues are overwhelmingly left wing in their politics and all but a handful voted Leave, yet they all consider the BBC as a Tory propaganda machine.

What isn't funny are the rumblings of press regulation coming from the EU now. On the face of it it may seem innocuous enough, but it is the thin edge of a dangerous wedge. We know the press is guilty of many things, but a free press is a hallmark of a true democracy. It has done more good than harm over the centuries.

My local MP voted Remain and has recently held a series of meetings on leaving the EU throughout the constituency. After speaking to him he says he has moved more towards the Leave camp in view of the EUs behaviour since the referendum. It has also been interesting to hear from him of the many trade bodies in Europe who have been busy lobbying their MEPs to ensure the UK gets a good deal. You just don'y hear that sort of news over here....

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too.......RK

Have faith friends.........

[20vcqdriver]

Originally Posted by Ringmaster

Hello Chaps,

Isn't democracy great?

I never paid much attention to European affairs until I noted the change of name from EEC to EU. At that point I started doing a bit more reading up about it and asked my Dad about the first referendum. On the face of it the European idea seemed noble enough, peace, trade and goodwill to all men and Britain was in economic trouble, like most countries who wanted in.

Over time I have listened to the experiences of former EU employees, all of whom enjoyed their time working for the EU but admitted to its needless wastefulness. Then I observed what happened to Ireland, which for me confirmed much of the criticism. We have enough waste and problems with our own systems of national government let alone need another layer at European level.

No one really knows what will happen when we leave, its never been done before. I'm sure there will be some chaos somewhere, come the time, but the UK is a significant economy of 63 million people. We have something to offer the world. This is something the doomsayers refuse to contemplate.

Heck, the whole world can't easily bring the various pariah nations to their knees with economic sanctions, so I think the UK will be fine.

As for the comments about the press... well we know each news source has its own bias. Its been like that since the year dot. It's funny how different people can have differing views on the same thing. My colleagues are overwhelmingly left wing in their politics and all but a handful voted Leave, yet they all consider the BBC as a Tory propaganda machine.

What isn't funny are the rumblings of press regulation coming from the EU now. On the face of it it may seem innocuous enough, but it is the thin edge of a dangerous wedge. We know the press is guilty of many things, but a free press is a hallmark of a true democracy. It has done more good than harm over the centuries.

My local MP voted Remain and has recently held a series of meetings on leaving the EU throughout the constituency. After speaking to him he says he has moved more towards the Leave camp in view of the EUs behaviour since the referendum. It has also been interesting to hear from him of the many trade bodies in Europe who have been busy lobbying their MEPs to ensure the UK gets a good deal. You just don'y hear that sort of news over here....

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too.......RK

Have faith friends.........

Well said. Lets stop bickering about the past and look at making the future the best it can be for the UK. We are in a strong position if all concerned work towards that goal

[Steev]

In my personal opinion:

I remember a time before Europe, it was not nice. Most inner cities were crap. Regeneration was due to EU funding.

I remember a time before Europe, it was not nice. As a buyer, trying to buy anything from there was an absolute nightmare of paperwork. Something called the EU made that easier

I remember a time before Europe, it was not nice. As a seller trying to match your sales spec to EU requirements frequently meant you lost the deal. setting standards for products (oustide of headline grabbing bananas) was done by something called the EU

I question what the press has to say or gain from this, their coverage overall is negative, that sells papers, pays for yachts. Selling a positive story, nahhh! Not good! Drop the dead donkey, focus on the EU?

Brexiteers point to "Project Fear", no one points to their project, "Project Teletubby Land". Where we all have our little piece of green grass and can sit on it watching the world go by, cos everyone likes us!! they all line up and we swap jelly sweets in the land of World Trade. Explain to me which of Johnson, Gove, Mogg, Duncan Smith or others will be held accountable if it does not pan out. With the EU, you know what you can expect and can influence it. If we have failed in the past, then then that says more about us than the EU to be be fair.

Look at the main Brexit proponents. EVERY one of them has silver spoon stuffed up their ....., they absolutely demand our "respect", Billy Bunter Johnson, Game of Thrones Gove, Spooky Duncan Smith and of course the man who respects women for what they are, five children later, Mogg. And Farage! Such an English name, he can rest assured for the rest of his life innured from reality with his EU final salary pension, he didn't sell out did he?

Politically I am agnostic, but Cameron's love affair of refernda on complex issues such as Scotland and the EU did not place him high amongst the leaders of the last 100 years.

He effectively said "I can't decide, don't look at me, what do you think?" True 1939 spirit!! Not! More like trying sort out his own EU party politics

And the question he asked was the same as asking "Do you want to sell your house?"

Having got the response, the answer is that you'll get a quid for it. But hey! It's the will of the people, well at least the ENGLISH people, voting on restricting immigration, which we cant influence even if we do leave. So having agreed to sell the house for a quid, do we go ahead? Or do we have another vote? Or heaven forfend do we find a politician that says, "stop this crap, we are better in than out" Watch out for Jeremy Corben on that one!!

Taking back control? Who will have that Control? Gove, Mogg, Duncan Smith, Johnson. Seriously?

This is a civil war in all but name, with Cavaliers and Roundheads are all mixed up together

The honest thing to do is for Mogg and his "powerful" ERG to setup their own party.

There is no difference between ERG and Momentum, they are both meant to hijack our votes for the two big parties for their own ends. The honest thing to do is to seperate and fight on the issues they pontificate about.

One last thing, the EU referendum was advisory, not compulsory.

So what the the F*** are we doing?