KV Injector advice needed.

[dockertrigger]

Hello again, My 90 2.2 10v runs quite lumpy when cold and sometime stalls until warmed up, ticking over around 500-600 rpm and shaking the car, I also have a ticking sound when you rev the car, now it was thought that it was the exhaust manifold gasket blowing but my dad seems to think it's possibly connected to the poor idle and that it might in fact be a leaking injector seal causing the problems and making the noise?.

I don't know much about that side of things on these so i was wondering is it possible for a injector on these to cause a ticking sound and lumpy idle? There is a faint smell of fuel under the bonnet to be fair.

If that is the problem how hard are they to remove and change the seals on?. I'm guessing i just need 5 of these?.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FUEL-INJEC...-/191085998784

Any advice is much welcomed as i haven't a clue and I'm starting to get fed up with the car now! Cheers.

[quattromnc]

Hey,

You won't be the first to have this issue, the manifolds regularly crack on these engines, your ticking noise on acceleration is likely to be a cracked manifold, I've had a few fixed over the years! they normally crack on the underside where the channels converge.

Lumpy idle is normally one of the following...
1. Air leak somewhere in the vacuum/induction pipes around the engine, just a matter of checking every pipe and joint, and fixing any leaks.
2. Idle valve fault or it just needs cleaning (remove & clean inside with petrol or carb cleaner),
3. Warm up injector (next to the throttle body on the manifold, provides additional fuel on cold start), quick check by detaching the electrical connector and monitor for change in behaviour, you can check further by removing it from the manifold and placing in to a bottle to check operation when running from cold.

If you search the forum, you'll find loads more info on each subject.

The injector seals are less likely to be the issue (not impossible though), the injectors shouldn't experience a lot of pressure as they sit behind the valves meaning they're not exposed to combustion chamber pressures at any point, unless you've disturbed the injectors recently they're likely to be OK. However if you ever are removing injectors for any reason, replacing the seals is a good idea, or if you want to be absolutely certain then they're not expensive, although without a good removal tool it can be a hell of a job to remove the injectors, worth buying a tool or spending time making a good one.

Hope that helps.

[Mellis46]

Originally Posted by quattromnc

...although without a good removal tool it can be a hell of a job to remove the injectors, worth buying a tool or spending time making a good one.

Hope that helps.

Doing the rearmost 2 injectors in situ is ridiculously fiddly without removing the inlet manifold, on my previous KV equipped 90 I replaced the front 3 by prising them out but couldn't access the rears sufficiently. When the head gasket went on it I was able to do the rear ones with the head off the car, it was then I discovered the injectors sit in a 2 part "sleeve". There is a brass ring that screws into the head, below which is a plastic(?) tube - any side to side or wiggling motion removing the injector can lead to these tubes cracking, or worse breaking and dropping fragments down... They will be heat stressed and brittle after 28 years! Hence another reason for a good removal tool!

Pic:



The injector nearest the bottom of the picture with the sleeve set up is what I had on my E-reg 2.2E. (Audi sent the parts for the other set up higher up when I ordered the sleeves and then wouldn't do refund as special order. This was back in 2005 ish?)

Dont discount the possibility some numpty has fiddled with the 2 adjustment screws for idle control voltage / CO adjustment. They are accessible and too tempting for some. Would also suggest checking for vac leaks if you have rough running (including the obscured pipes in the void between inlet and engine) and the cold start valve - historically, both have been an issue on my 90s, causing odd idle, hard starting etc. There is also the warm up regulator that comes into play, see above pic, but start with the vac pipes and then cold start valve - its easily accessible and relatively easy to find on a variety of vag engines second hand if required.

Don't give up on the car, it looks great and once the niggles are ironed out you'll find the KV engine is great!

[moonwatcher]

Originally Posted by dockertrigger

Hello again, My 90 2.2 10v runs quite lumpy when cold and sometime stalls until warmed up, ticking over around 500-600 rpm and shaking the car, I also have a ticking sound when you rev the car, now it was thought that it was the exhaust manifold gasket blowing but my dad seems to think it's possibly connected to the poor idle and that it might in fact be a leaking injector seal causing the problems and making the noise?.

I don't know much about that side of things on these so i was wondering is it possible for a injector on these to cause a ticking sound and lumpy idle? There is a faint smell of fuel under the bonnet to be fair.

If that is the problem how hard are they to remove and change the seals on?. I'm guessing i just need 5 of these?.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FUEL-INJEC...-/191085998784

Any advice is much welcomed as i haven't a clue and I'm starting to get fed up with the car now! Cheers.

I recently changed the inner and outer O seals on my KV engine, I got my replacements from Pete Reeve @ quattrocorner

[dockertrigger]

Thanks guys, there's plenty of food here for thought, I see how it goes but I might end up selling the car back on to someone who's more enthusiastic about these kind of jobs! The car's drives nice enough, it's just that lumpy idle when cold and worse is this manifold tapping!

[dockertrigger]

Right, I've just had a quick play with this and unplugging the Idle control valve make no difference to the running of the car at all, would this mean that's the most likely problem?.

I've made a high quality video of it to show you! Thanks

https://youtu.be/8nvhUtZJ_b8

[quattromnc]

Ok, so that points to one of two things, either the ICV is not working properly, or the changes it tries to make are having no effect, this would usually be down to an air leak nearby.

Do these 2 things...
1. Take the valve out and give it a good clean, soaking the insides with a petrol or carb cleaner, even let it soak overnight.
2. Remove the big rubber boot connecting the metering head to the inlet and check over for damage , inspect or even just replace all the thin hoses and joint around that area.

I'd put money on one, or both of these things sorting it for you.

Sion

[dockertrigger]

That's fab! Thank you I'll have a play at the weekend.

[moonwatcher]

Originally Posted by quattromnc

Remove the big rubber boot connecting the metering head to the inlet and check over for damage
Sion

I took the rubber boot off, there was a split underneath that was covered by the large jubilee clip, cleaned, degreased, repaired

[dockertrigger]

I think i might be getting somewhere with this, i had a spare 1/2 hour this afternoon so i got the ICV off and gave it a good clean with carb cleaner, it seems a bit better but still not right so i decided to spray some carb cleaner around the metering head, success! The revs picked up when i sprayed it around the right hand side of the large jubilee clip.

There's quite a few nicks and marks around this area so I'm wonder if one of them has split right through?. Are these repairable or am i better of just sourcing a good second hand rubber instead?.