LED headlight in older car.

EmmaK1 · 22-12-18, 11:11 PM

Hi Guys,

I am fed up of being blinded by oncoming traffic with LED lights!

Living out in the country with narrow winding muddy roads my 60w halogen bulbs just don't give enough light to be able to see the nearside edge of the road against the glare.

I have driven a car with LED lights and the extra brightness makes driving in the dark a lot less stressful. Mine is a 1993 Audi 80 Avant 1.9 TDi. I have had a look at the headlight enclosures and there seems to be enough room to fit LEDs without any modifications. A pair of H4 18 watt LED lights that give three times as much light for one third the power can be bought on ebay for £6.98... Seems mad not to fit them really

Has any one fitted LED emitters (Technicaly they are not bulbs!

) to an older car?

Mellis46 · 23-12-18, 10:21 AM

I haven't fitted them myself, but have seen both "successful" and unsuccessful results. I put successful in quotation marks because I think technically it isn't strictly legal in the UK to do this retrofit for road use.

When a new car is fitted with LED, it is a system as a whole, the lamps usually have a self levelling system, the bulbs are type approved and the lenses are made in a way so as to focus the light properly.

If you drop a £6 LED emitter into the enclosure for a halogen you may get more light out of it, but the pattern of the light or the scattering of that light will not be the same. It may or may not go through an MOT based on this. (Although this in itself is not a measure of it being legal, just a measure of its "success").

You can get complete led lamps that you could fit as a supplement to your bulb headlamps which have been type approved and wouldn't fall into any of the above pitfalls?

quattrodave · 23-12-18, 06:06 PM

Use relays to supply alternator voltage to lights , it'll double the output with standard bulbs as they'll be getting 14.5 volts instead of the 11.5/12.5 volts that they are getting thru the switch. I put a post up a few years ago (on here or S2 forum can't remember which) about the difference in output before/after coversion on the 2.6 avant quattro B4 I was running at the time. Also make sure you've got decent reflectors fitted in the headlamps you'd be suprised how much a difference fully silvered ones make compared to tarnished ones.

Stage 2 would be to fit higher wattage bulbs once the relays are fitted (but technically its illegal but then not as illegal as LED or HID at least they look correct)

20vcqdriver · 24-12-18, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quattrodave

Use relays to supply alternator voltage to lights , it'll double the output with standard bulbs as they'll be getting 14.5 volts instead of the 11.5/12.5 volts that they are getting thru the switch. I put a post up a few years ago (on here or S2 forum can't remember which) about the difference in output before/after coversion on the 2.6 avant quattro B4 I was running at the time. Also make sure you've got decent reflectors fitted in the headlamps you'd be suprised how much a difference fully silvered ones make compared to tarnished ones.

Stage 2 would be to fit higher wattage bulbs once the relays are fitted (but technically its illegal but then not as illegal as LED or HID at least they look correct)

Relays certainly make a difference and i have fitted led to mine but only the H1's for the main beam

John. · 24-12-18, 03:53 PM

As above, fitting relays and 100/80w bulbs would ensure it would still pass an MOT...…. and it'd make a difference without upsetting the aim/spread/pattern.
Not 100% sure but I think you'll need to have electrically adjustable headlight aim to be able to pass MOT with LED/HID bulbs????

………….but as you're in the sticks, a bottle of single malt will likely sort the MOT!

moonwatcher · 24-12-18, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmmaK1

Hi Guys,

I am fed up of being blinded by oncoming traffic with LED lights!

Living out in the country with narrow winding muddy roads my 60w halogen bulbs just don't give enough light to be able to see the nearside edge of the road against the glare.

I have driven a car with LED lights and the extra brightness makes driving in the dark a lot less stressful. Mine is a 1993 Audi 80 Avant 1.9 TDi. I have had a look at the headlight enclosures and there seems to be enough room to fit LEDs without any modifications. A pair of H4 18 watt LED lights that give three times as much light for one third the power can be bought on ebay for £6.98... Seems mad not to fit them really

Has any one fitted LED emitters (Technicaly they are not bulbs!

) to an older car?

You start with I am fed up of being blinded by oncoming traffic with LED lights! and it sounds like a complaint, but then go on to what appears to be I'll get my own back

EmmaK1 · 26-12-18, 01:59 PM

Thank you for the responses guys.

A few nights before Xmas I met an oncoming vehicle at a bend in a dip between two bends. The road at that point is only wide enough for two artics to squeeze past each other at low speed. The sides of the road are formed by 4ft high earth bank topped by dense hedges. I saw the reflected light on the hedge, slowed and flashed my lights to warn the other driver of my presence. As he came over the rise the shadow in the dip was so stark that it looked as if I was driving into a pool of water. I was unable to see the left side of the road. For a few seconds I could only rely on memory and hope that I did not bounce off the bank and cross the white line into the path of the oncoming vehicle. I think I can safely describe it as a sphincter puckering experience!

(I really don't want to test the ProConTen!)

I am sorry if it seems to read "I'll get my own back"! That was not the intention. I merely wish to convey my frustration at the situation I find myself in where legislation has not kept up with technology. Maximum wattages were implemented to reduce other road users being dazzled.

The problem is that legislators will persist in setting limits by the wrong measure. In the case of car lights by the wattage of the source rather than the lumen output of the light.

A 60w halogen bulb supplies at best about 1,200 lumen.
A 60w LED supplies about 5,400 lumen!

A modern car with two 30w LED lights will emit more than double the light of an older car with 60w bulbs. I would need 80w dip filaments to equal that... And that is ignoring the multiplicity of daylight running lights that nearly all manufacturers feel the need to install!

I appreciate the advise about improving the output of the existing lamps but legaly the maximum I could get is 2,400 lumen with new headlights and 60/60w bulbs using relays.

Higher power bulbs draw extra current... In the past I have melted the dip switch by putting 100/80w bulbs in a car designed for 60/55w bulbs. I had to replace the switch and fit two relays (one for dip, one for high.) From experience I dislike adding extra relay(s) as I find the slight switching delay distracting. Further, at this time I don't want the expense of new headlights, (or the fiddling about out in the cold and rain fitting them and any relay(s).)

My car is a daily driver and in this part of the world it is dark for 17 hours a day in the winter. I need to see were I am going to drive without out stress and reduce the risk of a collision. For this I need better lights and the easiest, quickest and simplest way is to adopt the new technology if I can... I am going to try the LEDs in the car and see how the beam compares to halogen bulbs.

I will let you know how I get on.

jimh · 26-12-18, 04:41 PM

IME if you have projector style headlights, they'll be good and you'll almost certainly get away with LED/HID.
I ran aftermarket HID for the last few years I had my B6 A4 with projector lamps and they were great - as long as you didn't want to listen to the radio with the lights on. The arc in the aftermarket HIDs is not shielded properly and causes lots of RF interference, don't know about LED in that regard (I don't know if they are constant on, or pulse rapidly to cause RF interference).

If you have reflector style headlamps, they'll be horrible, probably throw light everywhere, be very blue and stand out like a sore thumb. They'll likely fail MOT and could easily get you pulled by the old bill (if you can find any).
Reflectors and associated lenses depend on the position and orientation of the filament in the halogen bulb they are designed for. That's why the bulbs only fit in one orientation.
Modern cars seem to have mostly gone back to reflector lamps from the projectors of several years ago (not sure why, I assume they're cheaper to manufacture than projectors).

Modern LED reflector housings are different to halogen reflectors as they're designed for the specific LED "bulb" they use (not just any LED "bulb" made in China to no specific standard though).

IMO your best options are relays with uprated halogen bulbs in decent condition standard housings, or source some S2 style projector housings then go LED/HID.

Sandro · 27-12-18, 08:10 PM

this could be a good solution

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Morimoto-...Dt3j:rk:7:pf:0

EmmaK1 · 27-12-18, 10:00 PM

Thanks Guys,

I think it is the old crowd in a stadium problem... As long as everyone stays sat down everyone has a good view. If the person in front of you stands up then you have to stand up as well or you can't see!

Nuff sed.

23-12-18, 10:21 AM	#2
Mellis46 Aero Advocate Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Lancashire Posts: 1,448	I haven't fitted them myself, but have seen both "successful" and unsuccessful results. I put successful in quotation marks because I think technically it isn't strictly legal in the UK to do this retrofit for road use. When a new car is fitted with LED, it is a system as a whole, the lamps usually have a self levelling system, the bulbs are type approved and the lenses are made in a way so as to focus the light properly. If you drop a £6 LED emitter into the enclosure for a halogen you may get more light out of it, but the pattern of the light or the scattering of that light will not be the same. It may or may not go through an MOT based on this. (Although this in itself is not a measure of it being legal, just a measure of its "success"). You can get complete led lamps that you could fit as a supplement to your bulb headlamps which have been type approved and wouldn't fall into any of the above pitfalls? __________________ -1987 90 2.2E / Sapphire Blue (Rest in Pieces) -1989 90 quattro with Sport Equipment / Satin Black -1997 A4 Avant quattro TDI 110 / Tropical Green (Sold)

23-12-18, 06:06 PM	#3
quattrodave Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Bingley Posts: 634	Use relays to supply alternator voltage to lights , it'll double the output with standard bulbs as they'll be getting 14.5 volts instead of the 11.5/12.5 volts that they are getting thru the switch. I put a post up a few years ago (on here or S2 forum can't remember which) about the difference in output before/after coversion on the 2.6 avant quattro B4 I was running at the time. Also make sure you've got decent reflectors fitted in the headlamps you'd be suprised how much a difference fully silvered ones make compared to tarnished ones. Stage 2 would be to fit higher wattage bulbs once the relays are fitted (but technically its illegal but then not as illegal as LED or HID at least they look correct)

24-12-18, 03:53 PM	#5
John. 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Scottish Borders. Posts: 7,520	As above, fitting relays and 100/80w bulbs would ensure it would still pass an MOT...…. and it'd make a difference without upsetting the aim/spread/pattern. Not 100% sure but I think you'll need to have electrically adjustable headlight aim to be able to pass MOT with LED/HID bulbs???? ………….but as you're in the sticks, a bottle of single malt will likely sort the MOT!

26-12-18, 01:59 PM	#7
EmmaK1 Newbie! Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Carlisle Posts: 13	Thank you for the responses guys. A few nights before Xmas I met an oncoming vehicle at a bend in a dip between two bends. The road at that point is only wide enough for two artics to squeeze past each other at low speed. The sides of the road are formed by 4ft high earth bank topped by dense hedges. I saw the reflected light on the hedge, slowed and flashed my lights to warn the other driver of my presence. As he came over the rise the shadow in the dip was so stark that it looked as if I was driving into a pool of water. I was unable to see the left side of the road. For a few seconds I could only rely on memory and hope that I did not bounce off the bank and cross the white line into the path of the oncoming vehicle. I think I can safely describe it as a sphincter puckering experience! (I really don't want to test the ProConTen!) I am sorry if it seems to read "I'll get my own back"! That was not the intention. I merely wish to convey my frustration at the situation I find myself in where legislation has not kept up with technology. Maximum wattages were implemented to reduce other road users being dazzled. The problem is that legislators will persist in setting limits by the wrong measure. In the case of car lights by the wattage of the source rather than the lumen output of the light. A 60w halogen bulb supplies at best about 1,200 lumen. A 60w LED supplies about 5,400 lumen! A modern car with two 30w LED lights will emit more than double the light of an older car with 60w bulbs. I would need 80w dip filaments to equal that... And that is ignoring the multiplicity of daylight running lights that nearly all manufacturers feel the need to install! I appreciate the advise about improving the output of the existing lamps but legaly the maximum I could get is 2,400 lumen with new headlights and 60/60w bulbs using relays. Higher power bulbs draw extra current... In the past I have melted the dip switch by putting 100/80w bulbs in a car designed for 60/55w bulbs. I had to replace the switch and fit two relays (one for dip, one for high.) From experience I dislike adding extra relay(s) as I find the slight switching delay distracting. Further, at this time I don't want the expense of new headlights, (or the fiddling about out in the cold and rain fitting them and any relay(s).) My car is a daily driver and in this part of the world it is dark for 17 hours a day in the winter. I need to see were I am going to drive without out stress and reduce the risk of a collision. For this I need better lights and the easiest, quickest and simplest way is to adopt the new technology if I can... I am going to try the LEDs in the car and see how the beam compares to halogen bulbs. I will let you know how I get on.

26-12-18, 04:41 PM	#8
jimh Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 122	IME if you have projector style headlights, they'll be good and you'll almost certainly get away with LED/HID. I ran aftermarket HID for the last few years I had my B6 A4 with projector lamps and they were great - as long as you didn't want to listen to the radio with the lights on. The arc in the aftermarket HIDs is not shielded properly and causes lots of RF interference, don't know about LED in that regard (I don't know if they are constant on, or pulse rapidly to cause RF interference). If you have reflector style headlamps, they'll be horrible, probably throw light everywhere, be very blue and stand out like a sore thumb. They'll likely fail MOT and could easily get you pulled by the old bill (if you can find any). Reflectors and associated lenses depend on the position and orientation of the filament in the halogen bulb they are designed for. That's why the bulbs only fit in one orientation. Modern cars seem to have mostly gone back to reflector lamps from the projectors of several years ago (not sure why, I assume they're cheaper to manufacture than projectors). Modern LED reflector housings are different to halogen reflectors as they're designed for the specific LED "bulb" they use (not just any LED "bulb" made in China to no specific standard though). IMO your best options are relays with uprated halogen bulbs in decent condition standard housings, or source some S2 style projector housings then go LED/HID.

27-12-18, 08:10 PM	#9
Sandro Grown up member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Chelmsford Posts: 651	this could be a good solution https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Morimoto-...Dt3j:rk:7:pf:0

27-12-18, 10:00 PM	#10
EmmaK1 Newbie! Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Carlisle Posts: 13	Thanks Guys, I think it is the old crowd in a stadium problem... As long as everyone stays sat down everyone has a good view. If the person in front of you stands up then you have to stand up as well or you can't see! Nuff sed.