Help with welding in surrey

quattropower · 16-03-09, 11:24 AM

Just discovered a big hole where there should be metal, turns out one of the previous owners thought that he was good with fibre glass so instead of doing the job properly he filled it. I wanted to sort the small hole out properly but have soon uncovered a much bigger one, Anyone any good at welding in surrey, anyone wanna help me? I might buy a welder or borrow one off a friend, but has anyone dont this before?

TheTwelveQuidKid · 16-03-09, 12:06 PM

I used to do welding but haven't done any for many years now. I worked with a bloke who ran a welding business, and his welding was the best I've ever seen (and I've known several people who did it). He made it look really easy, and he encouraged me to have a go. I repaired a rear wheelarch on a vauxhall nova I had at the time (yes, well I soon learnt my lesson and got rid of it), and managed to do it without setting it on fire.

I got thrown in at the deep end shortly after that, because he was off sick, so I did the work he normally did, to keep his workshop rent paid while he was away. It took me longer to do the jobs because I had to think about it, but I soon got used to it and the results were good. I didn't really like welding but it was satisfying to do it and know it was a good job.

If you're into buying or borrowing a welder, I'd recommend trying it yourself. Do a few practice welds on some scrap metal first, until you get the confidence to use it on a car.
You'll need a mig welder, an angle grinder, definitely some eye protection, and a wekding mask. For the windscreen pillar, I'd be inclined to take the wing off so you can get to all the rust and sort it properly. In view of how close you'd need to be to the bulk head, strip out the lower dash, remove any trim and make sure you can get a fire extinguisher up there if it starts smoking or catches fire. There's probably a lot of seam sealer or other flammable stuff up there, so make sure you can get to it before you put any heat near it. A lot of workshop vehicle fires start in that area due to a lack of fire precautions. Also, from the photo it looks like there's some wiring or a sunroof drain pipe running up that pillar. You might get away with leaving it where it is, but if you do, weld the patch very slowly, and let it cool down before carrying on. Just tack the patch on, then let it cool. Leave it for several minutes, then weld a bit more, leave it to cool again, etc etc.

If you buy a welder, those gasless mig welders are ok, but the wire costs more, and if you use them without the correct wire, (or use a normal mig without gas) the results are horrible and nowhere near as strong. A cheap £12 angle grinder from argos or wilkinsons will do fine. We used one in the workshop for about 2 years before it fried, and even then I managed to stick a new set of brushes into it and gave it a new lease of life.

Disconnect the battery and alternator, or use one of those battery saver things, or you'll quite likely kill the alternator. The one time I didn't use one, I fried the alternator on a fiesta. Always put the earth clamp on the body shell, as close as practical to where you will be welding. If you can't seem to get a good earth, grind some of the paint ? underseal off the bottom of one of the sill weld seams, put a pair of mole grips on and connect the earth clamp to that. Never put the earth clamp on the engine, always the bodyshell.

4v6 · 16-03-09, 12:42 PM

Take the wing off also as itll make it easier to see the extent of the rust.

If i was closer id deffo give you a hand with that but im miles away.

Dont attempt to arc weld this type of repair up, youll just blow great big holes everywhere.
It may be better to hire a decent tig or mig welding set for a few days to do this right.
Id start by welding in a patch by sliding it in, tacking on a rod to pull it outwards then tacking round the edges, then once its all welded, lead load the area.
Not going to be easy if youve been away from it for a while so deffo best to get some practice in first.

Another method; Carbon arc welding, thats more useful for brazing type repairs, just another option open to you.
Me, id go tig if the choice was available.

quattropower · 17-03-09, 09:02 PM

I have managed to get the wing off so now I can see the full extent of the damage, if anyone knows of a car about to be scrapped(just missed a perfect example) let me know so i can cut that section out.

quattrokid · 17-03-09, 10:04 PM

i dont want to appear rude or anything..... but this REALLY NEEDS to be done by someone who can do it for you!!!!!

this area needs its structural strength as well as metal intergrity... this isnt a patch it job.

just my 2p worth.
get professional help if I was you...

also, the area under the wing frame doesnt look too healthy either.

steveb · 17-03-09, 10:21 PM

Looks like my '86 coupe

quattrokid · 18-03-09, 04:17 PM

at what . does this become beyond economical repair?

this is pretty severe corrosion.

4v6 · 18-03-09, 04:23 PM

All repairable if you have the time, skill, patience, money etc.

Once all the rots cut away youd be amazed how much better itd look.
Still, quite daunting if youve not encountered it before.

Isimmo · 18-03-09, 04:33 PM

All of our A pillar seams look like a beach in Prince William Sound after the Exxon Valdez went down... 5mm thick waxoil...

quattropower · 18-03-09, 05:03 PM

Has anyone got a pic of what it should look like so I can compare, the rest of the car seems ok, a bit of surface rust, but remember I have only paid £100 for the car and almost everything apart from the bodywork will be changed, roll cage fitted etc.

17-03-09, 10:04 PM	#5
quattrokid 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ayrshire Posts: 9,654	i dont want to appear rude or anything..... but this REALLY NEEDS to be done by someone who can do it for you!!!!! this area needs its structural strength as well as metal intergrity... this isnt a patch it job. just my 2p worth. get professional help if I was you... also, the area under the wing frame doesnt look too healthy either. __________________ RS4 B5 (wife's / ours now ) S3 8L Imola Yellow S3 8L Nogaro blue UrWR SOLD UrS4 saloon (SOLD again) S4 Cabrio (SOLD) A4 cabrio 2.5 V6tdi (SOLD) 80 cabrio 2.6 V6 SOLD 90 quattro 10v SOLD 100 2.2e SOLD FOUNDING MEMBER the 200,000 Plus miles Club

17-03-09, 10:21 PM	#6
steveb Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West Berkshire Posts: 1,155	Looks like my '86 coupe __________________ [FONT] '76 Leyland Princess 2200 HLS '79 Scirocco storm '84 WR '89 coupe quattro '01 A2 1.4 TDI SE '14 A3 1.4 TFSI COD [/color][/size][/font]

18-03-09, 04:17 PM	#7
quattrokid 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ayrshire Posts: 9,654	at what . does this become beyond economical repair? this is pretty severe corrosion. __________________ RS4 B5 (wife's / ours now ) S3 8L Imola Yellow S3 8L Nogaro blue UrWR SOLD UrS4 saloon (SOLD again) S4 Cabrio (SOLD) A4 cabrio 2.5 V6tdi (SOLD) 80 cabrio 2.6 V6 SOLD 90 quattro 10v SOLD 100 2.2e SOLD FOUNDING MEMBER the 200,000 Plus miles Club

18-03-09, 04:33 PM	#9
Isimmo Super Moderator Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sissix-by-the-sea Posts: 15,218	All of our A pillar seams look like a beach in Prince William Sound after the Exxon Valdez went down... 5mm thick waxoil... __________________ 1985 WR quattro, 1985 20vT RallyRep, 1993 MTM ABY S2 Avant. 2010 S3 Sportback.

16-03-09, 12:06 PM	#2
TheTwelveQuidKid Grown up member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 422	I used to do welding but haven't done any for many years now. I worked with a bloke who ran a welding business, and his welding was the best I've ever seen (and I've known several people who did it). He made it look really easy, and he encouraged me to have a go. I repaired a rear wheelarch on a vauxhall nova I had at the time (yes, well I soon learnt my lesson and got rid of it), and managed to do it without setting it on fire. I got thrown in at the deep end shortly after that, because he was off sick, so I did the work he normally did, to keep his workshop rent paid while he was away. It took me longer to do the jobs because I had to think about it, but I soon got used to it and the results were good. I didn't really like welding but it was satisfying to do it and know it was a good job. If you're into buying or borrowing a welder, I'd recommend trying it yourself. Do a few practice welds on some scrap metal first, until you get the confidence to use it on a car. You'll need a mig welder, an angle grinder, definitely some eye protection, and a wekding mask. For the windscreen pillar, I'd be inclined to take the wing off so you can get to all the rust and sort it properly. In view of how close you'd need to be to the bulk head, strip out the lower dash, remove any trim and make sure you can get a fire extinguisher up there if it starts smoking or catches fire. There's probably a lot of seam sealer or other flammable stuff up there, so make sure you can get to it before you put any heat near it. A lot of workshop vehicle fires start in that area due to a lack of fire precautions. Also, from the photo it looks like there's some wiring or a sunroof drain pipe running up that pillar. You might get away with leaving it where it is, but if you do, weld the patch very slowly, and let it cool down before carrying on. Just tack the patch on, then let it cool. Leave it for several minutes, then weld a bit more, leave it to cool again, etc etc. If you buy a welder, those gasless mig welders are ok, but the wire costs more, and if you use them without the correct wire, (or use a normal mig without gas) the results are horrible and nowhere near as strong. A cheap £12 angle grinder from argos or wilkinsons will do fine. We used one in the workshop for about 2 years before it fried, and even then I managed to stick a new set of brushes into it and gave it a new lease of life. Disconnect the battery and alternator, or use one of those battery saver things, or you'll quite likely kill the alternator. The one time I didn't use one, I fried the alternator on a fiesta. Always put the earth clamp on the body shell, as close as practical to where you will be welding. If you can't seem to get a good earth, grind some of the paint ? underseal off the bottom of one of the sill weld seams, put a pair of mole grips on and connect the earth clamp to that. Never put the earth clamp on the engine, always the bodyshell.

16-03-09, 12:42 PM	#3
4v6 Ex Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,565	Take the wing off also as itll make it easier to see the extent of the rust. If i was closer id deffo give you a hand with that but im miles away. Dont attempt to arc weld this type of repair up, youll just blow great big holes everywhere. It may be better to hire a decent tig or mig welding set for a few days to do this right. Id start by welding in a patch by sliding it in, tacking on a rod to pull it outwards then tacking round the edges, then once its all welded, lead load the area. Not going to be easy if youve been away from it for a while so deffo best to get some practice in first. Another method; Carbon arc welding, thats more useful for brazing type repairs, just another option open to you. Me, id go tig if the choice was available.

18-03-09, 04:23 PM	#8
4v6 Ex Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,565	All repairable if you have the time, skill, patience, money etc. Once all the rots cut away youd be amazed how much better itd look. Still, quite daunting if youve not encountered it before.

18-03-09, 05:03 PM	#10
quattropower Grown up member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Surrey Posts: 291	Has anyone got a pic of what it should look like so I can compare, the rest of the car seems ok, a bit of surface rust, but remember I have only paid £100 for the car and almost everything apart from the bodywork will be changed, roll cage fitted etc.