How to id ex-rally cars

rattysplit · 25-07-20, 09:31 PM

Hello!

Is there any way to tell for sure if car is built new to a rally car? I am buying an 1983 80 quattro that was built by David Sutton(or that is what I am told) to Mouton. It was for making notes for competitions. I tried to send email to Sutton but got no reply.

In the 90s it was used to group n rallying. It have a very stiff bilstein shocks with english markings, bolted roll-gage, the drivers seat have Moutons name and the is David Sutton on rear screen.

The same seller have also a 80 quattro group-a shell with a strange vin-number..

Groundhog · 26-07-20, 08:45 AM

As with anything old and potentially valuable you need documented provenance to assure value and authenticity. Very few ‘rally cars’ have this and I can assure you there are plenty out there that are very much like Triggers brush from Fools and Horses.
Back to your car, we did have a 80q back then as a reci car, I seem to recal it was red in colour, I can’t recall it being used by Mouton though. It is very unlikely the seat is genuine, only the actual rally car would have the drivers own seat fitted,the reci car would have had a generic seat. The Sutton sticker is a good sign if genuine ( does it look aged?) Sutton used to put a ‘dealer’ type sticker in The rear window of all the rally cars ( little known fun fact)

rattysplit · 26-07-20, 09:01 AM

Thanks for reply! The car is red indeed and the sticker in the rear window looks like it was fitted in the 80s. One funny thing I noticed it has a MPH speedometer.

Does Sutton have any list of the VIN-numbers of the cars that were modified?

It is quite difficult to identify the car because it doesnt have much rally-spec parts being used. I think the suspension and roll-cage being all? The motor was stock KK?

Groundhog · 26-07-20, 10:42 AM

David Sutton Motorsport went bust ( although there are other David Sutton businesses still operating)so it is unlikely any record of cars that were modified survived other than in his head or recorded by outside sources. A reci car is unlikely to have any surviving record other than with relevant government organisation. Reci cars were generally stock other than roll cage, suspension and wheels/tyres to suit stages. They were not just reserved for reci work they would have been used to transport parts, personal, equipment, trips to the chip shop etc etc. While interesting now it would have been considered a disposable item of no significance in the day so any records unlikely. The car was sold to a local Northampton amateur driver by the name of Ian Drummond but I know he didn’t keep it long.
Another fun fact while we had the car it was allocated the reg No AUD 180 (Audi 80)

Isimmo · 26-07-20, 10:54 AM

This is an interesting read on DSMotorsport if you’re interested. (Martyn, you can ignore the link....

)

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...and-glory-days

rattysplit · 26-07-20, 11:12 AM

So it was registered in street use, I thought it was rally-use only. Is there goverment records of registered cars in England?

It would be great to know how the car got to Finland. I know it was rallyed here in 94. But where it was before that..

steveb · 26-07-20, 11:31 AM

If you do an HPI check it should tell you what reg numbers the car has had, there is also a part that asks you to confirm the chassis number

rattysplit · 26-07-20, 03:33 PM

Ok. The HPI-check can be done online somewhere? Here in Finland they have records online maybe from present to 95 I think.

Groundhog, Do You remember when the car was sold? And forgive me not knowing, what is Reci-car?

steveb · 26-07-20, 04:40 PM

Here,

https://www.hpi.co.uk/hpi-car-check.html

Groundhog · 26-07-20, 04:47 PM

Sorry my bad should have been spelt recce short for reconnaissance. The race would have been driven before hand by the driver and co-driver and notes taken on turns, angle of turns, dips, bumps etc etc and distances between. Generally the car would not be driven in anger but needed to be safe and able to cope with, for instance, rough forest stages.
While we used it it was a road car for all intents and purpose, it was never rallied or used in competition. They made an ideal car to buy to use for rallying as they were always well looked after had a lot of necessary race bits already fitted and of course any future owners could boast that the famous driver ‘X’ had driven the car.
Can’t remember when the car was sold exactly but it would have been mid eighties.
As above, in the UK you can pay a nominal sum and get a cars history But you may need someone else on here to tell you what form you need-I don’t know. Any history might be dependent on how the car was registered and for what use. For instance David Llewellin had his recce car ,a quattro coupe, registered to him as a ‘gift’ from the sponsors and I know of at least two that were registered as Sutton’s wife’s company car although she never drove them.
Some rally cars can be extremely difficult to track so beware.

26-07-20, 10:54 AM	#5
Isimmo Super Moderator Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sissix-by-the-sea Posts: 15,218	This is an interesting read on DSMotorsport if you’re interested. (Martyn, you can ignore the link....) https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/a...and-glory-days __________________ 1985 WR quattro, 1985 20vT RallyRep, 1993 MTM ABY S2 Avant. 2010 S3 Sportback.

26-07-20, 11:31 AM	#7
steveb Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West Berkshire Posts: 1,155	If you do an HPI check it should tell you what reg numbers the car has had, there is also a part that asks you to confirm the chassis number __________________ [FONT] '76 Leyland Princess 2200 HLS '79 Scirocco storm '84 WR '89 coupe quattro '01 A2 1.4 TDI SE '14 A3 1.4 TFSI COD [/color][/size][/font]

26-07-20, 04:40 PM	#9
steveb Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: West Berkshire Posts: 1,155	Here, https://www.hpi.co.uk/hpi-car-check.html __________________ [FONT] '76 Leyland Princess 2200 HLS '79 Scirocco storm '84 WR '89 coupe quattro '01 A2 1.4 TDI SE '14 A3 1.4 TFSI COD [/color][/size][/font]

26-07-20, 04:47 PM	#10
Groundhog Grown up member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 143	Sorry my bad should have been spelt recce short for reconnaissance. The race would have been driven before hand by the driver and co-driver and notes taken on turns, angle of turns, dips, bumps etc etc and distances between. Generally the car would not be driven in anger but needed to be safe and able to cope with, for instance, rough forest stages. While we used it it was a road car for all intents and purpose, it was never rallied or used in competition. They made an ideal car to buy to use for rallying as they were always well looked after had a lot of necessary race bits already fitted and of course any future owners could boast that the famous driver ‘X’ had driven the car. Can’t remember when the car was sold exactly but it would have been mid eighties. As above, in the UK you can pay a nominal sum and get a cars history But you may need someone else on here to tell you what form you need-I don’t know. Any history might be dependent on how the car was registered and for what use. For instance David Llewellin had his recce car ,a quattro coupe, registered to him as a ‘gift’ from the sponsors and I know of at least two that were registered as Sutton’s wife’s company car although she never drove them. Some rally cars can be extremely difficult to track so beware. Last edited by Groundhog; 26-07-20 at 04:58 PM. Reason: More info

26-07-20, 08:45 AM	#2
Groundhog Grown up member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 143	As with anything old and potentially valuable you need documented provenance to assure value and authenticity. Very few ‘rally cars’ have this and I can assure you there are plenty out there that are very much like Triggers brush from Fools and Horses. Back to your car, we did have a 80q back then as a reci car, I seem to recal it was red in colour, I can’t recall it being used by Mouton though. It is very unlikely the seat is genuine, only the actual rally car would have the drivers own seat fitted,the reci car would have had a generic seat. The Sutton sticker is a good sign if genuine ( does it look aged?) Sutton used to put a ‘dealer’ type sticker in The rear window of all the rally cars ( little known fun fact)

26-07-20, 09:01 AM	#3
rattysplit Grown up member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 21	Thanks for reply! The car is red indeed and the sticker in the rear window looks like it was fitted in the 80s. One funny thing I noticed it has a MPH speedometer. Does Sutton have any list of the VIN-numbers of the cars that were modified? It is quite difficult to identify the car because it doesnt have much rally-spec parts being used. I think the suspension and roll-cage being all? The motor was stock KK?

26-07-20, 10:42 AM	#4
Groundhog Grown up member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 143	David Sutton Motorsport went bust ( although there are other David Sutton businesses still operating)so it is unlikely any record of cars that were modified survived other than in his head or recorded by outside sources. A reci car is unlikely to have any surviving record other than with relevant government organisation. Reci cars were generally stock other than roll cage, suspension and wheels/tyres to suit stages. They were not just reserved for reci work they would have been used to transport parts, personal, equipment, trips to the chip shop etc etc. While interesting now it would have been considered a disposable item of no significance in the day so any records unlikely. The car was sold to a local Northampton amateur driver by the name of Ian Drummond but I know he didn’t keep it long. Another fun fact while we had the car it was allocated the reg No AUD 180 (Audi 80)

26-07-20, 11:12 AM	#6
rattysplit Grown up member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 21	So it was registered in street use, I thought it was rally-use only. Is there goverment records of registered cars in England? It would be great to know how the car got to Finland. I know it was rallyed here in 94. But where it was before that..

26-07-20, 03:33 PM	#8
rattysplit Grown up member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 21	Ok. The HPI-check can be done online somewhere? Here in Finland they have records online maybe from present to 95 I think. Groundhog, Do You remember when the car was sold? And forgive me not knowing, what is Reci-car?