Dirty VAG

Ben · 22-09-15, 06:23 PM

So VAG have been caught using dodgy software in their diesels to trick the USA emissions test, and could be paying up to $20bn in fines. They also have to sort out all those cars that will now fail the test. Do they have that sort of cash available to pay out, or is it the end for the group and they have to liquidate and sell off the brands?

Let the speculation begin.

I hope Audi gets new owners, who recognise the history and start making parts for older cars at a reasonable price.

Isimmo · 22-09-15, 08:55 PM

Back in the very early days of 4wd in rallying the rule book was regularly bent or stretched to the point of broken... it was the 'name of the game'... And its the same today in all levels of motorsport.... Given set of rules.... apply set of rules... exploit set of rules.... deliberately exploit for personal gain set of rules... Its motorsport exported to domestic production... alas it doesn't translate well into ethically sustainable environmentally friendly regulation and fair market competition....

SorenR · 22-09-15, 09:32 PM

#dieselgate

Isimmo · 22-09-15, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SorenR

#dieselgate

Could be worse could be

#wastegate

hmg · 22-09-15, 10:15 PM

Could be a good time to have a punt on some VW shares. ??

Steev · 22-09-15, 10:32 PM

Was thinking exactly that tbh 🎩!

Ben · 22-09-15, 10:33 PM

VWs share price has dropped 35% or $29bn over the last two days

As of May 2015 they had a net worth of $126bn. I can't see they can survive without selling something off.

I expect the making of spare parts for old Audis has been pushed further down the to do list for a while.

Steev · 22-09-15, 11:16 PM

That thing at the end my last post is the TapaTalk "Monopoly Top Hat", ifn u hadna guessed.

I think u r correct Vintercorn would not have made his "statement" without due diligence in understanding the ramifications.

So he has agreed internally (supposition) "hands up its and honest cop guv" Arfur Daley style.

12 mill cars with software change at cost, double that for contingency in the rest of the world?. What's everyone's guess per car?

Add in 12 Bill fine.

Write it off over five years.

Total maybe 15 Bill

3 bill per year?

Reckon profits can take it if brand is protected, hence the "OMG what have we done?" stance.

Cynical? Not as much as them. I have posted before about VAG arrogance in that context

We have to fight for anything in aftermarket, they should be subsidising it to promote the brand.

UK lawyers have a Latin phrase for cynical exploitation " res ipsa loquitur "

It means the facts speak for themselves, or literally "the thing speaks for itself"

I rest my case

Minty · 23-09-15, 06:43 AM

This will prove to have been sponsored at a very high level in VW. What staggers me is that they put something questionable into a car & clearly thought it would never be found...

The combination of costs and lost of market confidence will push them to the brink, and then the German government will do an RBS-style bail out on the grounds they're too big to fail.

The group will probably then be broken up.

S4_SAT · 23-09-15, 10:39 AM

I think the witchhunt against VW is just to tarnish their reputation and cut sales of fuel efficient cars. The only reason they've done it is because VW/Audi etc are so much more economical than other cars in the US, it's affecting the amount of oil used and reducing the demand, therefore reducing the price per barrel. All the software did was reduce the emissions and increase the fuel consumption for the tests and reverted back to higher emissions and lower fuel consumption. Might be mad but just my 2p worth.....

22-09-15, 08:55 PM	#2
Isimmo Super Moderator Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sissix-by-the-sea Posts: 15,218	Back in the very early days of 4wd in rallying the rule book was regularly bent or stretched to the point of broken... it was the 'name of the game'... And its the same today in all levels of motorsport.... Given set of rules.... apply set of rules... exploit set of rules.... deliberately exploit for personal gain set of rules... Its motorsport exported to domestic production... alas it doesn't translate well into ethically sustainable environmentally friendly regulation and fair market competition.... __________________ 1985 WR quattro, 1985 20vT RallyRep, 1993 MTM ABY S2 Avant. 2010 S3 Sportback.

22-09-15, 10:32 PM	#6
Steev Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Cheshire Posts: 872	Was thinking exactly that tbh 🎩! __________________ Lots of Audi 100 C1 saloons (1973-77) Audi Coupe S (1972) Audi WR Turbo (1987) NSU RO 80 1975 (look it up!) Vauxhall Cavalier Mk1 2000 GL 1979 Vauxhall Cavalier Mk1 1900 GL Coupe 1978 Vauxhall Viva HB 1967 (45HP beast!)

22-09-15, 10:33 PM	#7
Ben 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Stockport Posts: 2,348	VWs share price has dropped 35% or $29bn over the last two days As of May 2015 they had a net worth of $126bn. I can't see they can survive without selling something off. I expect the making of spare parts for old Audis has been pushed further down the to do list for a while. __________________ 1992 80 quattro 20vt

22-09-15, 11:16 PM	#8
Steev Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Cheshire Posts: 872	That thing at the end my last post is the TapaTalk "Monopoly Top Hat", ifn u hadna guessed. I think u r correct Vintercorn would not have made his "statement" without due diligence in understanding the ramifications. So he has agreed internally (supposition) "hands up its and honest cop guv" Arfur Daley style. 12 mill cars with software change at cost, double that for contingency in the rest of the world?. What's everyone's guess per car? Add in 12 Bill fine. Write it off over five years. Total maybe 15 Bill 3 bill per year? Reckon profits can take it if brand is protected, hence the "OMG what have we done?" stance. Cynical? Not as much as them. I have posted before about VAG arrogance in that context We have to fight for anything in aftermarket, they should be subsidising it to promote the brand. UK lawyers have a Latin phrase for cynical exploitation " res ipsa loquitur " It means the facts speak for themselves, or literally "the thing speaks for itself" I rest my case __________________ Lots of Audi 100 C1 saloons (1973-77) Audi Coupe S (1972) Audi WR Turbo (1987) NSU RO 80 1975 (look it up!) Vauxhall Cavalier Mk1 2000 GL 1979 Vauxhall Cavalier Mk1 1900 GL Coupe 1978 Vauxhall Viva HB 1967 (45HP beast!)

23-09-15, 06:43 AM	#9
Minty Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Wirral Posts: 1,528	This will prove to have been sponsored at a very high level in VW. What staggers me is that they put something questionable into a car & clearly thought it would never be found... The combination of costs and lost of market confidence will push them to the brink, and then the German government will do an RBS-style bail out on the grounds they're too big to fail. The group will probably then be broken up. __________________ 1984 GT5E Topaz Green 1982 GT5S Helios Blue - now in Ireland 1983 GT5E Topaz Green - donor 1986 GT 2.0 Tornado Red - long gone 2001 A6 2.4 V6 - exported to Ireland

22-09-15, 09:32 PM	#3
SorenR Grown up member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Vesterlyng/Föllenslev, Denmark Posts: 563	#dieselgate

22-09-15, 10:15 PM	#5
hmg Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Cheshire Posts: 632	Could be a good time to have a punt on some VW shares. ??

23-09-15, 10:39 AM	#10
S4_SAT Grown up member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sunny Glasgow Posts: 442	I think the witchhunt against VW is just to tarnish their reputation and cut sales of fuel efficient cars. The only reason they've done it is because VW/Audi etc are so much more economical than other cars in the US, it's affecting the amount of oil used and reducing the demand, therefore reducing the price per barrel. All the software did was reduce the emissions and increase the fuel consumption for the tests and reverted back to higher emissions and lower fuel consumption. Might be mad but just my 2p worth.....