Preventing rattle on shorter springs

Adam G · 31-03-17, 10:27 AM

Hi, I have just fitted slightly shorter coil springs to my UR but have found the Koni shocks I have do not have enough adjustment on the top threads to screw the upper spring perch down onto the shorter spring when the shock is at full extension. This means if the shocks reach full travel the springs will rattle about.

What options do I have to fix this. I'm pretty sure there are shocks out there that do have some adjustment range to suit shorter springs but as my Konis are in good nick Im reluctant to buy 4 more.

Can I use helper springs and does anyone know a source for them that will fit the standard suspension strut for a UR quattro.

I tried contacting a koni specialist as I had heard they can be taken apart and shimmed to reduce the travel but was told mine are not the serviceable type.

Any other ideas? Thanks.

Hanuman · 31-03-17, 03:03 PM

2 options

1. Fit uprated dampers which are setup to work with lowered/shorter springs.

2. The dampers can be shimmed internally, as a service option. The shims Restrict the total travel.

I had this issue, as many others did, when updating the suspension on my ur. Standard ride height springs, but with increased rates, resulting in a slightly short than stock spring. At full travel, the upper plate would become loose.
In my case, I simply used rear dampers at the front as well. The rear dampers having a shorter stroke. Being adjustable, I then set them up to achieve the damping rates that I needed.

I also used some very thick rubber sound-deadening mat to make a 'cushion' on the upper spring seat.

I've got some notes on this in one of my threads on my Zermat ur.
http://www.classic-audi.co.uk/forum/...ion#post355388

Adam G · 01-04-17, 09:07 AM

Thanks for the tip on the use of rear shocks on the front. This will mean I only have to buy new ones for the rear.

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Adam G · 01-04-17, 09:36 AM

Just had a look at your thread, can you let me know where you got your springs from (coil springs Sheffield by any chance) and did fitting rears on the front take up enough slack to avoid getting them shimmer? Thanks.

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jimh · 02-04-17, 12:42 AM

You need to take the front shocks to a Koni service agent. They will open them and change the internal shims to restrict the travel. This is a cheap and quick service (I had it done at the agent in Newbury). These are the yellow Koni sport shocks (I think 86-2086 /2087 Sport).
My springs are the +30% red springs from a group buy several years ago now. I believe they were from coil springs Sheffield.

Are rear dampers correct on the front? I hope not, as I hope that they are more finely tuned than that. They are adjustable for rebound rate only.

Having the front shocks shimmed is much cheaper than buying an extra set of rear shocks anyway. I paid <£50 to have them done and collected them in 24 hours.

Hanuman · 02-04-17, 03:34 PM

Unfortunately, the service agent in Newbury has proven next to impossible to contact, or to organise service. I spent many weeks trying to do just that. In the end, I couldn't delay any further.
Motorsport commitments being the main reason that was given. I'd be interested to know if that has improved, as I do want to address this on mine.

Adam G · 04-04-17, 06:36 PM

Well I haven't had much luck so far. I tried another service agent in Wellingborough as its closer to where I live but he said he wouldn't shim them due to having no success re-sealing them in the past.

I also enquired about new Konis, hoping the ones advertised as "suitable for use with lowering springs" would fix the issue but apparently this means they wont get damaged rather than can be adjusted to prevent spring rattle.

Koni advised that yellows for the UR have never been updated so the 20 year old shocks I have are exactly the same spec as those listed today.

Might have to look into alternative makes of shock but I have a feeling I will hit the same issue. Anyone running Billies on here and how did you get round the issue?

Other than that I will be looking at spacers but that will increase the ride height over standard which wont look as good.

jimh · 04-04-17, 07:27 PM

When we did the group buy, there were 2 options. Black springs were (I think) +15%, and red ones +30%.
They were loose on unfettled Konis , but at least some of them were ok on Bilsteins (I don't know if that was red & black, or just black).
It was a quattroforum group buy, and I'm pretty sure some on there had success with Bilsteins. Try asking what springs they run...

Hanuman · 04-04-17, 08:25 PM

That's the springs that I have- the red +30%.
If I don't get much luck talking to the Koni service guy, I'll probably try Bilsteins. However, the setup that I have currently (in my link, earlier) using Konis is working well, at present.

As for the damper setup, I had a very long chat with Koni's technical people about this, and we discussed the option of putting rears in the front as an alternative.
Yes, getting them shimmed would have been cheaper, but I'd still be waiting to do it.

Adam G · 05-04-17, 12:53 PM

Ive just had a big dig about the threads on the quattroforum (used to be my most frequented forum but not on Tapatalk so not mobile friendly), and found an excellent and most useful summary. It was stated that Koni made their UR dampers about 20mm longer than OEM so this appears to be a KONI only issue which is good to know.

So if you want stiffer springs on the front, and want to keep the OEM height, you have the following options.

1. Remove and reposition lower spring keeper further up the strut. Use the purchased springs with the existing shocks.
2. Use the stiffer Springs with Bilsteins. No further mods required
3. Use the stiffer Springs with Koni's. Get the Konis modified, and get them serviced at the same time to keep the cost down. This solution has the positive attraction that a forum member has qualified this as a working solution.
4. Use a progressive rate spring instead. As far as I know, the only ones available are H&R's, which lower the car by 30mm IIRC. Of course, you could always get someone to make up something to get the ride height back......

31-03-17, 03:03 PM	#2
Hanuman Trickster Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Heckling from the cheap seats, Phnom Penh, KoW Posts: 7,006	2 options 1. Fit uprated dampers which are setup to work with lowered/shorter springs. 2. The dampers can be shimmed internally, as a service option. The shims Restrict the total travel. I had this issue, as many others did, when updating the suspension on my ur. Standard ride height springs, but with increased rates, resulting in a slightly short than stock spring. At full travel, the upper plate would become loose. In my case, I simply used rear dampers at the front as well. The rear dampers having a shorter stroke. Being adjustable, I then set them up to achieve the damping rates that I needed. I also used some very thick rubber sound-deadening mat to make a 'cushion' on the upper spring seat. I've got some notes on this in one of my threads on my Zermat ur. http://www.classic-audi.co.uk/forum/...ion#post355388 __________________ I wish they would keep the damned Chinese away now that I can go home, so that I can enjoy Fish amok and a draught Angkor Last edited by Hanuman; 04-04-17 at 08:33 PM.

02-04-17, 03:34 PM	#6
Hanuman Trickster Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Heckling from the cheap seats, Phnom Penh, KoW Posts: 7,006	Unfortunately, the service agent in Newbury has proven next to impossible to contact, or to organise service. I spent many weeks trying to do just that. In the end, I couldn't delay any further. Motorsport commitments being the main reason that was given. I'd be interested to know if that has improved, as I do want to address this on mine. __________________ I wish they would keep the damned Chinese away now that I can go home, so that I can enjoy Fish amok and a draught Angkor

04-04-17, 08:25 PM	#9
Hanuman Trickster Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Heckling from the cheap seats, Phnom Penh, KoW Posts: 7,006	That's the springs that I have- the red +30%. If I don't get much luck talking to the Koni service guy, I'll probably try Bilsteins. However, the setup that I have currently (in my link, earlier) using Konis is working well, at present. As for the damper setup, I had a very long chat with Koni's technical people about this, and we discussed the option of putting rears in the front as an alternative. Yes, getting them shimmed would have been cheaper, but I'd still be waiting to do it. __________________ I wish they would keep the damned Chinese away now that I can go home, so that I can enjoy Fish amok and a draught Angkor Last edited by Hanuman; 04-04-17 at 08:36 PM.

01-04-17, 09:07 AM	#3
Adam G Grown up member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 21	Thanks for the tip on the use of rear shocks on the front. This will mean I only have to buy new ones for the rear. Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

01-04-17, 09:36 AM	#4
Adam G Grown up member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 21	Just had a look at your thread, can you let me know where you got your springs from (coil springs Sheffield by any chance) and did fitting rears on the front take up enough slack to avoid getting them shimmer? Thanks. Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

02-04-17, 12:42 AM	#5
jimh Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 122	You need to take the front shocks to a Koni service agent. They will open them and change the internal shims to restrict the travel. This is a cheap and quick service (I had it done at the agent in Newbury). These are the yellow Koni sport shocks (I think 86-2086 /2087 Sport). My springs are the +30% red springs from a group buy several years ago now. I believe they were from coil springs Sheffield. Are rear dampers correct on the front? I hope not, as I hope that they are more finely tuned than that. They are adjustable for rebound rate only. Having the front shocks shimmed is much cheaper than buying an extra set of rear shocks anyway. I paid <£50 to have them done and collected them in 24 hours.

04-04-17, 06:36 PM	#7
Adam G Grown up member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 21	Well I haven't had much luck so far. I tried another service agent in Wellingborough as its closer to where I live but he said he wouldn't shim them due to having no success re-sealing them in the past. I also enquired about new Konis, hoping the ones advertised as "suitable for use with lowering springs" would fix the issue but apparently this means they wont get damaged rather than can be adjusted to prevent spring rattle. Koni advised that yellows for the UR have never been updated so the 20 year old shocks I have are exactly the same spec as those listed today. Might have to look into alternative makes of shock but I have a feeling I will hit the same issue. Anyone running Billies on here and how did you get round the issue? Other than that I will be looking at spacers but that will increase the ride height over standard which wont look as good.

04-04-17, 07:27 PM	#8
jimh Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 122	When we did the group buy, there were 2 options. Black springs were (I think) +15%, and red ones +30%. They were loose on unfettled Konis , but at least some of them were ok on Bilsteins (I don't know if that was red & black, or just black). It was a quattroforum group buy, and I'm pretty sure some on there had success with Bilsteins. Try asking what springs they run...

05-04-17, 12:53 PM	#10
Adam G Grown up member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 21	Ive just had a big dig about the threads on the quattroforum (used to be my most frequented forum but not on Tapatalk so not mobile friendly), and found an excellent and most useful summary. It was stated that Koni made their UR dampers about 20mm longer than OEM so this appears to be a KONI only issue which is good to know. So if you want stiffer springs on the front, and want to keep the OEM height, you have the following options. 1. Remove and reposition lower spring keeper further up the strut. Use the purchased springs with the existing shocks. 2. Use the stiffer Springs with Bilsteins. No further mods required 3. Use the stiffer Springs with Koni's. Get the Konis modified, and get them serviced at the same time to keep the cost down. This solution has the positive attraction that a forum member has qualified this as a working solution. 4. Use a progressive rate spring instead. As far as I know, the only ones available are H&R's, which lower the car by 30mm IIRC. Of course, you could always get someone to make up something to get the ride height back......