It's a mobile swimming pool!

Duffy3074 · 13-07-16, 03:30 PM

Got a water leak (no shit Sherlock!) on my B3 90 saloon.

Seats out, carpet pulled right forward and things drying out.

I've siliconed the cable grommet (which looked fine), sunroof and bulkhead drains are completely clear, the fuse box looks okay.

The leaks to the offside, any other obvious things to check??

vorsprung durch technik · 13-07-16, 03:44 PM

Jesus,your not having much luck with the car atm.

Hope you find the problem pronto.I can't remember if the B3 has a pollen filter on the left side like the B4? If it does it could be that where the scuttle plastic shroud had not been refitted properly which is a common problem.

Edit, ignore me i just read the leaks to the offside.

Mellis46 · 13-07-16, 04:57 PM

Is that picture of the drivers side, rear??

Someone else had this recently, forget who and what but it was down to a door seal or something?

Edit: found it:

http://www.classic-audi.co.uk/forum/...ad.php?t=34652

Not sure if it was resolved, similar prob though?

Duffy3074 · 13-07-16, 05:32 PM

Yeah that's the rear and thanks for the link, however it looks like it's been flowing through from the front, which is very wet as well, the bottom of the doors and underneath the doors is dry so it's not from there, there's no water loss from the cooling system so it's not the heater matrix.
It certainly looks like the front offside bulkhead and that's where the infamous grommet is but it must have been gathering in there for quite a while as there was easily a couple of pints of water sloshing about.
It's fighting me all the way this one.
On the plus side took it out for a hurl last night and it's driving brilliantly.

Mellis46 · 13-07-16, 05:48 PM

Hmm, matrix did spring to mind (again) only because Ive had to do it to all 3 of my audis over the years. Could the coolant leak from that union u fixed have been masking a leak from the matrix thats been happening over a long period? Now youve redone the engine, new gaskets etc, all up to spec pressure wise and youve started driving the thing (enthusiastically) could the leak now just be more noticeable?

I know you say theres no apparent coolant loss now but if the soundproofing had already been saturated it may not have taken much to bring it over the carpet?

Just a thought, its such a common problem, 28 year old part etc

Duffy3074 · 13-07-16, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mellis46

Hmm, matrix did spring to mind (again) only because Ive had to do it to all 3 of my audis over the years. Could the coolant leak from that union u fixed have been masking a leak from the matrix thats been happening over a long period? Now youve redone the engine, new gaskets etc, all up to spec pressure wise and youve started driving the thing (enthusiastically) could the leak now just be more noticeable?

I know you say theres no apparent coolant loss now but if the soundproofing had already been saturated it may not have taken much to bring it over the carpet?

Just a thought, its such a common problem

And one that has occurred to me, especially since there's big parts of the interior out and I'm thinking 'Maybe whilst I'm in here....', however I've always used high quantities of anti freeze (enough to give any water that distinctive slippery feeling and a smell) and there's not even a hint of that, even when I'm looking for it (the sub conscious being what it is)

Once everything is bone dry I'll fire it back up and try and see exactly where it's coming from with a hose.

Mellis46 · 13-07-16, 05:57 PM

Tbh, the presence of antifreeze wasnt noticeable when its happened to me, if the leak is gradual and over a period of time....?

If you are keeping the car its a job that will get you sooner or later, i wouldnt rule it out. For a seasoned restorer such as yourself you could have it done in a day!

Duffy3074 · 13-07-16, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mellis46

Tbh, the presence of antifreeze wasnt noticeable when its happened to me, if the leak is gradual and over a period of time....?

If you are keeping the car its a job that will get you sooner or later, i wouldnt rule it out. For a seasoned restorer such as yourself you could have it done in a day!

I'm going to have to take the centre of the dash out anyway to get the carpet out properly.

There's a certain temptation just to do it.

Is this the common part?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NRF-Heater...sAAOSwmmxW2ZMY

Mellis46 · 13-07-16, 06:17 PM

It is a complete dash out job, it really couldnt be fitted any deeper in.

The part is common to all B3/B4 iirc, different part (pipes in different position) for left/right hand drive.

Theres a whole other debate as to the brand you should fit. Got a genuine one in the 90 but a nissens one in the A4. You pays your money and takes your choice...!

1781cc · 13-07-16, 06:34 PM

I had this a while back in my cab, looked even more like a swimming pool because its blue, ha ha.

I followed a similar path, eventually had to pull the dash out, not once, but twice because I thought I still had a leak however it was left over water that hadn't dried out of the carpet insulation sponge and just gradually seeped out via gravity.

In my case it was a break in the seal of the scuttle panel, on heavy rain it would run down the screen, through the scuttle into the pollen filter and down through into the air system, this in turn would fill up and come out through the seams into the passenger well only.

Its all sorted now and has been solid for a while and completely leak free, but it was a ball ache to get solved. If you can, leave the car outside when its gutted of interior for a couple weeks after you have mad it bone dry and periodically water test with a hose, or if its raining, just keep an eye on it before you put the carpet back in.

There some good S2central guides on the S2 forum on how to get the dash out (some hooks and clips weren't obvious) and there is also some notes on seam cracking with some cars as well, where the bulkhead and the scuttle were sealed poorly from factory or suffered stress fractures, although not as bad as that suffered by SAABs

13-07-16, 03:44 PM	#2
vorsprung durch technik 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Near Watford. Posts: 7,753	Jesus,your not having much luck with the car atm. Hope you find the problem pronto.I can't remember if the B3 has a pollen filter on the left side like the B4? If it does it could be that where the scuttle plastic shroud had not been refitted properly which is a common problem. Edit, ignore me i just read the leaks to the offside. Last edited by vorsprung durch technik; 13-07-16 at 03:51 PM.

13-07-16, 04:57 PM	#3
Mellis46 Aero Advocate Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Lancashire Posts: 1,448	Is that picture of the drivers side, rear?? Someone else had this recently, forget who and what but it was down to a door seal or something? Edit: found it: http://www.classic-audi.co.uk/forum/...ad.php?t=34652 Not sure if it was resolved, similar prob though? Last edited by Mellis46; 13-07-16 at 05:02 PM.

13-07-16, 05:32 PM	#4
Duffy3074 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Dalgety Bay, Fife Posts: 2,078	Yeah that's the rear and thanks for the link, however it looks like it's been flowing through from the front, which is very wet as well, the bottom of the doors and underneath the doors is dry so it's not from there, there's no water loss from the cooling system so it's not the heater matrix. It certainly looks like the front offside bulkhead and that's where the infamous grommet is but it must have been gathering in there for quite a while as there was easily a couple of pints of water sloshing about. It's fighting me all the way this one. On the plus side took it out for a hurl last night and it's driving brilliantly.

13-07-16, 05:48 PM	#5
Mellis46 Aero Advocate Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Lancashire Posts: 1,448	Hmm, matrix did spring to mind (again) only because Ive had to do it to all 3 of my audis over the years. Could the coolant leak from that union u fixed have been masking a leak from the matrix thats been happening over a long period? Now youve redone the engine, new gaskets etc, all up to spec pressure wise and youve started driving the thing (enthusiastically) could the leak now just be more noticeable? I know you say theres no apparent coolant loss now but if the soundproofing had already been saturated it may not have taken much to bring it over the carpet? Just a thought, its such a common problem, 28 year old part etc

13-07-16, 05:57 PM	#7
Mellis46 Aero Advocate Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Lancashire Posts: 1,448	Tbh, the presence of antifreeze wasnt noticeable when its happened to me, if the leak is gradual and over a period of time....? If you are keeping the car its a job that will get you sooner or later, i wouldnt rule it out. For a seasoned restorer such as yourself you could have it done in a day!

13-07-16, 06:17 PM	#9
Mellis46 Aero Advocate Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Lancashire Posts: 1,448	It is a complete dash out job, it really couldnt be fitted any deeper in. The part is common to all B3/B4 iirc, different part (pipes in different position) for left/right hand drive. Theres a whole other debate as to the brand you should fit. Got a genuine one in the 90 but a nissens one in the A4. You pays your money and takes your choice...!

13-07-16, 06:34 PM	#10
1781cc Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 1,070	I had this a while back in my cab, looked even more like a swimming pool because its blue, ha ha. I followed a similar path, eventually had to pull the dash out, not once, but twice because I thought I still had a leak however it was left over water that hadn't dried out of the carpet insulation sponge and just gradually seeped out via gravity. In my case it was a break in the seal of the scuttle panel, on heavy rain it would run down the screen, through the scuttle into the pollen filter and down through into the air system, this in turn would fill up and come out through the seams into the passenger well only. Its all sorted now and has been solid for a while and completely leak free, but it was a ball ache to get solved. If you can, leave the car outside when its gutted of interior for a couple weeks after you have mad it bone dry and periodically water test with a hose, or if its raining, just keep an eye on it before you put the carpet back in. There some good S2central guides on the S2 forum on how to get the dash out (some hooks and clips weren't obvious) and there is also some notes on seam cracking with some cars as well, where the bulkhead and the scuttle were sealed poorly from factory or suffered stress fractures, although not as bad as that suffered by SAABs