Classic Audi Technical Mech/Tech Engine » Non-starting 2.6E

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Old 04-08-19, 10:09 AM   #1
Alan67
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Default Non-starting 2.6E

Hi again.

Unfortunately, this post isn't quite as positive as my previous ones since recently buying the car.

My 1993 80 (b4) 2.6E Saloon has been in my local garage since Wednesday morning getting a new timing belt, water pump, coolant change, thermostat, N/S Wishbone (due to worn bushes) and an oil change, thanks to a sump plug which was found to have been rounded off, removed...and replaced....by using a chisel!!!

Now, when I went to pick the car up at 6pm on Friday, the garage mentioned that when they brought the car back into the workshop to do the tracking, they couldn't get it to start. They had worked their way around to removing both the fuel pump relay and the intermittent relay. They cleaned the terminals, replaced, and the car fired up. They did the tracking, and parked the car outside. When I went to bring it home, it wouldn't start again. Removing and replacing the relays made no difference this time, so what they did earlier might have been coincidence.

They found that there was no spark and no fuel. Fuel pump could be heard priming and battery is good, turning the engine over well. They are thinking crankshaft sensor, but basically, this all happened as they were pretty much shutting up shop until Monday morning, so they just had to tow the car back into the workshop until then.

My curiosity is now getting the better of me though, not to mention a sense of impending doom as to how much this is going to cost to fix. So I guess my question is....what could be causing this, and could the misfire that the car has had in the 2 weeks that I've owned (but barely driven) it be linked in some way?
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Old 04-08-19, 11:54 AM   #2
Ben
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From experience, a failing cam sensor can cause random non starting. The ECU checks to see if the camshaft is turning before switching on the fuel and sparks.
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Old 04-08-19, 02:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan67 View Post
So I guess my question is....what could be causing this, and could the misfire that the car has had in the 2 weeks that I've owned (but barely driven) it be linked in some way?
It might be better to keep this in with "readers rides" where you first mentioned your problems.

I posted this for you but didn't get an answer..........

From your readers rides.

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Originally Posted by vorsprung durch technik View Post
Just read through this and readers rides. Welcome to the turbine smooth ABC 6 cylinder.

These engines and electrics are extremely robust and built to last apart from the Hall sender that sits behind the right hand bank cylinder head. I've owned one for near 20 years now and thats my experience of them.

I see you have bought many service items, great stuff, have you done the fuel filter change yet? These can cause a misfire. I'd also check that all injectors are working, could be one has a faulty wire connection. Just unplug one at a time and have a look at the loom at that point.
It mentioned the notorious 2.6 non start problem, it's down to the Hall sender at the back of the right hand bank cylinder head. Don't worry it's not an expensive job it only takes 10 mins to change the part plus the cost if it. I had exactly this same problem on my silver one @126k. It seams to me your car was sold on because it had a a few issues, isn't that always the case, but with a little perseverance you'll end up with a stunning car one you'll enjoy no end!! So,......did you change the fuel filter?
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Old 04-08-19, 02:23 PM   #4
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As with buying all new Audi parts buy cheap buy twice, better to get an original part if you can or go for an original suppliers name. AS an example,.....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Genui...4AAOSwsBtaFJIP
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Old 04-08-19, 06:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
From experience, a failing cam sensor can cause random non starting. The ECU checks to see if the camshaft is turning before switching on the fuel and sparks.
Hi.

Thanks for your reply. I think the garage did say something about fuel and spark being held back until blah blah blah.....
At this point I think my mind had started to wander to thoughts of the car being a money pit, and I lost track of what they said!
This could be it though

Thanks,
Alan
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Old 04-08-19, 06:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
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It might be better to keep this in with "readers rides" where you first mentioned your problems.
Hi.

Sorry, I just thought with it being a new issue, it would be better to start a new thread. I didn't want to be putting every issue I ever have with the car (hopefully very few!) under the same post for the next 20 years!

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Originally Posted by vorsprung durch technik View Post
I posted this for you but didn't get an answer..........
I really must apologise for not replying. I hadn't even seen your post to be truthful. I've had so many things on my plate this week that the Audi has had to take a back seat. I've skimmed in and out of the forum looking at bits and bobs, but have unfortunately totally missed this information. I'm sure as you get to know me a bit better around here, you'll find that I'm not one to take information and run...never to be heard from again! So, my apologies once again

Quote:
Originally Posted by vorsprung durch technik View Post
It mentioned the notorious 2.6 non start problem, it's down to the Hall sender at the back of the right hand bank cylinder head. Don't worry it's not an expensive job it only takes 10 mins to change the part plus the cost if it. I had exactly this same problem on my silver one @126k. It seams to me your car was sold on because it had a a few issues, isn't that always the case, but with a little perseverance you'll end up with a stunning car one you'll enjoy no end!! So,......did you change the fuel filter?
This is excellent information, and appears to be very good news if this turns out to be the problem.
Fuel filter not changed yet as we were hoping to use the car, but garage said if they disturbed the fuel hoses, they might need replacing, and the car would not be available for me to use. It can be done in a couple of weeks time however.

Last edited by Alan67; 04-08-19 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 04-08-19, 07:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan67 View Post
Hi.

Sorry, I just thought with it being a new issue, it would be better to start a new thread. I didn't want to be putting every issue I ever have with the car (hopefully very few!) under the same post for the next 20 years!



I really must apologise for not replying. I hadn't even seen your post to be truthful. I've had so many things on my plate this week that the Audi has had to take a back seat. I've skimmed in and out of the forum looking at bits and bobs, but have unfortunately totally missed this information. I'm sure as you get to know me a bit better around here, you'll find that I'm not one to take information and run...never to be heard from again! So, my apologies once again



This is excellent information, and appears to be very good news if this turns out to be the problem.
Fuel filter not changed yet as we were hoping to use the car, but garage said if they disturbed the fuel hoses, they might need replacing, and the car would not be available for me to use. It can be done in a couple of weeks time however.
No worries, i'll lay money on the none start issue is the camshaft position sensor (Hall sensor is it's traditional name) going by the age of your vehicle and mileage. One caveat in that,........as long as no heavy handed hands have been in there and destroyed things it has been known with professionals! My current avant is on 77k and not needed anything other than the TPS switch at @60k which is the only other common thing to go which regulates the idle speed and if gone the revs don't return to normal when hot. That's another cheap item even from Audi last i looked and easy to change.

There really isn't much that goes on these, if you make a complete fix you should see at least 20 years good service out of it with regular servicing,regular antifreeze changes injector cleaning via a bottle etc etc. The only other thing to worry about is vacuum hoses, they are worth changing at this sort of age unless they look in good condition, but still get yourself some vacuum hose for when it does.

Oh and the cat, they don't go from my experience,....... just that the joint rusts on the later ones on the y section of the downpipe 94 onwards, yours being an early one has 2 of them so slightly further upstream when you look at the diagrams on ( 7Zap ) and more out of the way of road water
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Old 04-08-19, 07:32 PM   #8
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Good info this form an article around 20 years ago.

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Old 04-08-19, 07:50 PM   #9
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Hi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorsprung durch technik View Post
My current avant is on 77k and not needed anything other than the TPS switch at @60k which is the only other common thing to go which regulates the idle speed and if gone the revs don't return to normal when hot. That's another cheap item even from Audi last i looked and easy to change.
Once the other issues are sorted, I reckon it might be worth getting one of these then, and just keeping it in the tool box ready for action should issues begin to appear

Quote:
Originally Posted by vorsprung durch technik View Post
There really isn't much that goes on these, if you make a complete fix you should see at least 20 years good service out of it with regular servicing,regular antifreeze changes injector cleaning via a bottle etc etc.
Injector cleaning via a bottle? Do you mean the stuff you pour into the fuel tank...or am I missing put on some amazing fix to blocked injectors with the use of a bottle? I'm assuming the first but hoping for the second!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vorsprung durch technik View Post
The only other thing to worry about is vacuum hoses, they are worth changing at this sort of age unless they look in good condition, but still get yourself some vacuum hose for when it does.
Funny you should mention vacuum hose. The seller said he'd had to 'fix' a length of vacuum hose to correct an issue the car had when I first viewed it. This was basically every time you revved the engine up to 2,000rpm...the revs plummeted and the engine very nearly stalled. His 'fix' was apparently replacing the hose with a piece of old rubber tubing he had lying around! I'd actually forgotten all about this to be honest. He said the hose ran along near the bottom of the engine. Don't suppose you would know which hose he was referring to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vorsprung durch technik View Post
Oh and the cat, they don't go from my experience,....... just that the joint rusts on the later ones on the y section of the downpipe 94 onwards, yours being an early one has 2 of them so slightly further upstream when you look at the diagrams on ( 7Zap ) and more out of the way of road water
Seem to have been quite lucky in this respect. I also have a 1992 Mercedes-Benz 500SL too. When I bought that nearly 6 years ago, I new absolutely nothing about the cars, a bit like the Audi. As it turns out, 1992 was a kind of 'golden year' for the SL, avoiding a whole host of issues that other years suffered from. Looks like I might have managed to do the same with the Audi....even if it is only with the cats!

Cheers for the information. It's very much appreciated
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Old 04-08-19, 07:59 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Alan67 View Post
Hi.

Injector cleaning via a bottle? Do you mean the stuff you pour into the fuel tank...or am I missing put on some amazing fix to blocked injectors with the use of a bottle? I'm assuming the first but hoping for the second!

I meant injector cleaning with wyns gold that you put in your tank. Works for me.


Funny you should mention vacuum hose. The seller said he'd had to 'fix' a length of vacuum hose to correct an issue the car had when I first viewed it. This was basically every time you revved the engine up to 2,000rpm...the revs plummeted and the engine very nearly stalled. His 'fix' was apparently replacing the hose with a piece of old rubber tubing he had lying around! I'd actually forgotten all about this to be honest. He said the hose ran along near the bottom of the engine. Don't suppose you would know which hose he was referring to?

Sorry i wouldn't know without looking at it.


Seem to have been quite lucky in this respect. I also have a 1992 Mercedes-Benz 500SL too. When I bought that nearly 6 years ago, I new absolutely nothing about the cars, a bit like the Audi. As it turns out, 1992 was a kind of 'golden year' for the SL, avoiding a whole host of issues that other years suffered from. Looks like I might have managed to do the same with the Audi....even if it is only with the cats!


So are you saying you have no cats on your car?


Cheers for the information. It's very much appreciated
No worries your welcome.

Tbh i really like these engines partly because they're just superbly smoooooth and quick enough if looked after and for the fact they are one of Audis finest as far as reliability is concerned. I hope you can see the answers in you quoted post?
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