Eu referendum. - Page 35

Emjay · 03-07-16, 10:27 AM

[quote=4v6;408958]Hes a funny old "racist" then being married to a german woman.

So what percentage of racists do you reckon are ukippers then?

Are you suggesting none?

Also youre using the "phobe" moniker which is entirely inaccurate, its become fashionable among the left to label anyone displaying any sign at all of discontent with current immigration policy as being a phobe of some sort, but the terminology is wrong, if someone is genuinely phobic regarding immigrants then for one thing they cant by definition of the word "Phobic" actually help it, its a "Phobia" just like any other, such as being repulsed by spiders or other creepy crawlies and for another they shouldnt be screamed at hysterically and treated like outcasts if theyve got a phobia......but then when did the intelligensia of the left care about accuracy?

xenephobe

/ˈzɛnəˌfəʊb/

noun 1. a person who hates or fears foreigners or strangers

Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 2012 Digital Edition
© William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012

Sod all to do with the thinking's of the left wing intelligentsia of which I don't purport to be of anyway

But away from that for a bit and onto Sky News last night and The Pledge discussion programme.
I often shout at the telly (I know you all do too!) and last night was no exception, with Michelle Dewberry, Greg Dyke, June Sarpong and Nick Ferrari.

The point being made by June sarpong was that somehow the referendum was void because the leave side lied and people voted on that lie therefore meaning the result shouldnt stand.
I find that kind of attitude illogical simply because the same situation existed when we got signed into the EEC in the first place, on a lie.
Politicians lied about it being only a trading bloc, but the aim all along was political union and all the lovely control freakery that goes with it.
If anything June, youve negated your own point.

There is a huge question over the mandate given by the public. In 1973 the results were 67% in favour of staying in on a 65% turnout.
The current mandate is significantly lower at 52/48% respectively. A figure which Nigel Farage proposed was undemocratic if Remain had won but now is accepted by him as valid. You could not make this shit up.
The leave campaign further compounds matters as all the exponents now are distancing themselves as quickly as possible from the promises they made. So there is real fears about what has been voted for and rightly so. I feel genuinely sorry for the 17million voters promised false hope.

Then Greg Dyke suggested that decisons like these shouldnt be left to the public becuase theyre "too complex" essentially hinting that we are all to bloody stupid to know whats best for us.

To be frank large swathes of the population don't even understand the fundamental voting process in the UK and what a referendum is (not legally binding) and what it means to put a cross in a box (I didn't think my vote would count) coupled with the rhetoric that the vote would be somehow rigged in remains favour coming from certain quarters (ever heard of the electoral commission?). Any idiot can put a cross in a box and as is evidenced by this discussion the topic is a highly complex one based on legal, economic and constitutional affairs

The point regardin g the future of the younger generation was also raised with anecdotal evidence offered that kids were so worried about their futures because all us old farts went and voted to leave and they, well they didnt want to but couldnt be arsed to vote...

Rather disingenuous too the younger generation. Tends to negate your previous assertion regarding stereotyping and assumptive judgements. ie I allegedly assume xenophobia and racism but you counter by assuming that the younger generation are too idle to vote and are not intelligent enough to make a decision based on their experiences of the country they live in 2016

Which raises the obvious point of: All of us lot under 60 have been subjected to the EU since we were kids, what happened to our choice and our futures as kids NOT to be enrolled into the biggest slavery operation in history then?
No one gave a shyte about our futures, weve had to get on with it, captives of a previous generations folly.

My final point here because im getting worn out typing

is simply this; Kids should be thanking the older generation for voting the way they did, because if they hadnt then sometime in the not too distant future they or their kids could well have found themselves conscripted to fight in an EU army and then theyd really have had something to bitch and whine about rather than cheap holidays and effing phone calls!

What absolute poppycock. There are no plans for an EU army. And such a move will require unanimous approval by all member states. In other words any country can veto the proposal.

I'm done on this now.

But I will leave this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dosmKwrAbI&app=desktop

john johnson · 03-07-16, 06:04 PM

I watched the pledge , June sarpong has worse choppers than Ken Dodd , Michelle dewberry is wurth one and I fell asleep then 😩

Emjay · 03-07-16, 08:10 PM

So you run the referendum again and the result is the same, want to go for third time lucky?
Or the result goes the other way by the same margin, would you still complain about the size of the mandate? Course not!
Or you run it again and the remain side gets wiped out or the leave side gets wiped out and still complainers from all sides keep squeaking how very unfair it all is, so you run it ad infinitum until you get 100% one way or the other........
The point here is that when people voted, they accepted the terms of the referendum and the result, whatever that might have been when they stuck an X in the box, otherwise they shouldnt have bloody voted!
Its like entering the lottery and bitching when you dont win.

First of all no, I don't propose to run it again. I have never suggested that The argument here is about the strength of the mandate that parliament will have to consider whether or not they decide to invoke article 50. My own opinion is that it should never have gone to a referendum in the first place. And Farage should not have sown the idea in peoples minds in the first place that a 52/48 mandate would not have been enough for a remain vote.

If one side or other had been wiped out at least the mandate would have been convincing. It should have been run with a 60/40 mandate in my personal opinion.

When people voted they did accept the terms of the referendum. That it's not binding. If people thought or assumed otherwise then I refer back to my earlier post regarding fundamentally understanding the democratic process in this country. Being led to believe by Cameron that he would invoke article 50 within days of the result was cynical. Now the light is dawning and at long last facts are coming to be debated rather than empty rhetoric and lies on both sides then maybe a more considered referendum may be the approach the government may wish to take. I don't know I'm not an MP. But on the principle that Parliament acts in the best interests of the country I don't believe the referendum result on its own provides a strong enough case

Finally I will take you to task about the younger generation. I have 4 kids who have thought long and hard about the issues involved and how they feel they should vote. They have articulated themselves on many occasions often far better than I ever could. So they understand in their own minds what they want for their future. And I'm pretty certain they are typical of the vast majority of youngsters in the country. Their opinion and vote is no less worthy because they are younger and we are older. I've met a lot of adults who behave worse than children in their outlook and behaviors, sadly some in my own family who are still fighting WW2 and quoting Churchill ad infinitum. No the don't all sit on their ipads or playstations. The vast majority are working hard in education or in work.

My eldest daughter has suffered pain and hardship beyond her years due to her crippling disability. She will never work and never have kids. She will have ongoing medical treatment to the day she dies and what did the Conservative government wish to do? Cut her disability allowances by £30. The one thing that gives her some semblance of income, self sufficiency and dignity. So I would politely suggest that she has had life experiences in ways that you and I could never ever have frankly wished to experience.

I do everything in my power to protect my children's future including the way I voted. That's my responsibility as a parent and one I never ever take lightly. I see far more harm being dished out to the needy of this country due to the actions of this Tory government than any thing that could be possibly served up be leaving or remaining in the EU. All in the name of austerity.

Their struggles, whether it be leaving University with crippling debt, not being able to access affordable housing, seeing their healthcare provision eroded away, are all consequences of the actions of the nation state government and the un-elected representatives in the house of Lords (yes we have un-elected politicians too). So while we argue the toss over stuff that might or might never come to pass in the EU we continue to let our own government and politicians off the hook for the damage they continue to cause to the country and it's people.

Over and out

john johnson · 04-07-16, 06:56 AM

You could spin that round and say that the elected government was only elected on a vote share of say 35% . In essence we have one side arguing the world is square whilst the other arguing it's flat .... No ones really right but they argue they are

spink · 04-07-16, 09:20 AM

http://www.infowars.com/video-stupid...t-millennials/

martinjs · 04-07-16, 09:40 AM

Generation snowflake, what a bunch of *****

Duffy3074 · 04-07-16, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spink

http://www.infowars.com/video-stupid...t-millennials/

That's funny!

Funnily enough the word 'impartial' never contemplated the merest possibility of crossing my mind.

The whole site is right wing yank pish!

TeXerv · 04-07-16, 02:05 PM

From the outside it looks more and more chaotic. First a few guys throw the UK into turmoil and then one after another they steal themselves away.
And the government possibly plans to make the UK a tax haven. The employees and workers will take much pleasure in that.

03-07-16, 06:04 PM	#342
john johnson Moderator of sausages Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: sheffield Posts: 13,331	I watched the pledge , June sarpong has worse choppers than Ken Dodd , Michelle dewberry is wurth one and I fell asleep then 😩 __________________ Mr OCD http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/jsquatts/ Daily rs4 b7 with buckets that play havoc with my piles And if you are reading this as James may would say ' you're a cock '

04-07-16, 06:56 AM	#344
john johnson Moderator of sausages Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: sheffield Posts: 13,331	You could spin that round and say that the elected government was only elected on a vote share of say 35% . In essence we have one side arguing the world is square whilst the other arguing it's flat .... No ones really right but they argue they are __________________ Mr OCD http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t144/jsquatts/ Daily rs4 b7 with buckets that play havoc with my piles And if you are reading this as James may would say ' you're a cock '

04-07-16, 09:40 AM	#346
martinjs Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bedfordshire/Yorkshire Posts: 149	Generation snowflake, what a bunch of ***** __________________ 1992 UrS4

03-07-16, 10:27 AM	#341
Emjay Man Fettler Extraodinaire Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Up my own arse blowing smoke Posts: 7,417	[quote=4v6;408958]Hes a funny old "racist" then being married to a german woman. So what percentage of racists do you reckon are ukippers then? Are you suggesting none? Also youre using the "phobe" moniker which is entirely inaccurate, its become fashionable among the left to label anyone displaying any sign at all of discontent with current immigration policy as being a phobe of some sort, but the terminology is wrong, if someone is genuinely phobic regarding immigrants then for one thing they cant by definition of the word "Phobic" actually help it, its a "Phobia" just like any other, such as being repulsed by spiders or other creepy crawlies and for another they shouldnt be screamed at hysterically and treated like outcasts if theyve got a phobia......but then when did the intelligensia of the left care about accuracy? xenephobe /ˈzɛnəˌfəʊb/ noun 1. a person who hates or fears foreigners or strangers Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 2012 Digital Edition © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012 Sod all to do with the thinking's of the left wing intelligentsia of which I don't purport to be of anyway But away from that for a bit and onto Sky News last night and The Pledge discussion programme. I often shout at the telly (I know you all do too!) and last night was no exception, with Michelle Dewberry, Greg Dyke, June Sarpong and Nick Ferrari. The point being made by June sarpong was that somehow the referendum was void because the leave side lied and people voted on that lie therefore meaning the result shouldnt stand. I find that kind of attitude illogical simply because the same situation existed when we got signed into the EEC in the first place, on a lie. Politicians lied about it being only a trading bloc, but the aim all along was political union and all the lovely control freakery that goes with it. If anything June, youve negated your own point. There is a huge question over the mandate given by the public. In 1973 the results were 67% in favour of staying in on a 65% turnout. The current mandate is significantly lower at 52/48% respectively. A figure which Nigel Farage proposed was undemocratic if Remain had won but now is accepted by him as valid. You could not make this shit up. The leave campaign further compounds matters as all the exponents now are distancing themselves as quickly as possible from the promises they made. So there is real fears about what has been voted for and rightly so. I feel genuinely sorry for the 17million voters promised false hope. Then Greg Dyke suggested that decisons like these shouldnt be left to the public becuase theyre "too complex" essentially hinting that we are all to bloody stupid to know whats best for us. To be frank large swathes of the population don't even understand the fundamental voting process in the UK and what a referendum is (not legally binding) and what it means to put a cross in a box (I didn't think my vote would count) coupled with the rhetoric that the vote would be somehow rigged in remains favour coming from certain quarters (ever heard of the electoral commission?). Any idiot can put a cross in a box and as is evidenced by this discussion the topic is a highly complex one based on legal, economic and constitutional affairs The point regardin g the future of the younger generation was also raised with anecdotal evidence offered that kids were so worried about their futures because all us old farts went and voted to leave and they, well they didnt want to but couldnt be arsed to vote... Rather disingenuous too the younger generation. Tends to negate your previous assertion regarding stereotyping and assumptive judgements. ie I allegedly assume xenophobia and racism but you counter by assuming that the younger generation are too idle to vote and are not intelligent enough to make a decision based on their experiences of the country they live in 2016 Which raises the obvious point of: All of us lot under 60 have been subjected to the EU since we were kids, what happened to our choice and our futures as kids NOT to be enrolled into the biggest slavery operation in history then? No one gave a shyte about our futures, weve had to get on with it, captives of a previous generations folly. My final point here because im getting worn out typing is simply this; Kids should be thanking the older generation for voting the way they did, because if they hadnt then sometime in the not too distant future they or their kids could well have found themselves conscripted to fight in an EU army and then theyd really have had something to bitch and whine about rather than cheap holidays and effing phone calls! What absolute poppycock. There are no plans for an EU army. And such a move will require unanimous approval by all member states. In other words any country can veto the proposal. I'm done on this now. But I will leave this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dosmKwrAbI&app=desktop

03-07-16, 08:10 PM	#343
Emjay Man Fettler Extraodinaire Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Up my own arse blowing smoke Posts: 7,417	So you run the referendum again and the result is the same, want to go for third time lucky? Or the result goes the other way by the same margin, would you still complain about the size of the mandate? Course not! Or you run it again and the remain side gets wiped out or the leave side gets wiped out and still complainers from all sides keep squeaking how very unfair it all is, so you run it ad infinitum until you get 100% one way or the other........ The point here is that when people voted, they accepted the terms of the referendum and the result, whatever that might have been when they stuck an X in the box, otherwise they shouldnt have bloody voted! Its like entering the lottery and bitching when you dont win. First of all no, I don't propose to run it again. I have never suggested that The argument here is about the strength of the mandate that parliament will have to consider whether or not they decide to invoke article 50. My own opinion is that it should never have gone to a referendum in the first place. And Farage should not have sown the idea in peoples minds in the first place that a 52/48 mandate would not have been enough for a remain vote. If one side or other had been wiped out at least the mandate would have been convincing. It should have been run with a 60/40 mandate in my personal opinion. When people voted they did accept the terms of the referendum. That it's not binding. If people thought or assumed otherwise then I refer back to my earlier post regarding fundamentally understanding the democratic process in this country. Being led to believe by Cameron that he would invoke article 50 within days of the result was cynical. Now the light is dawning and at long last facts are coming to be debated rather than empty rhetoric and lies on both sides then maybe a more considered referendum may be the approach the government may wish to take. I don't know I'm not an MP. But on the principle that Parliament acts in the best interests of the country I don't believe the referendum result on its own provides a strong enough case Finally I will take you to task about the younger generation. I have 4 kids who have thought long and hard about the issues involved and how they feel they should vote. They have articulated themselves on many occasions often far better than I ever could. So they understand in their own minds what they want for their future. And I'm pretty certain they are typical of the vast majority of youngsters in the country. Their opinion and vote is no less worthy because they are younger and we are older. I've met a lot of adults who behave worse than children in their outlook and behaviors, sadly some in my own family who are still fighting WW2 and quoting Churchill ad infinitum. No the don't all sit on their ipads or playstations. The vast majority are working hard in education or in work. My eldest daughter has suffered pain and hardship beyond her years due to her crippling disability. She will never work and never have kids. She will have ongoing medical treatment to the day she dies and what did the Conservative government wish to do? Cut her disability allowances by £30. The one thing that gives her some semblance of income, self sufficiency and dignity. So I would politely suggest that she has had life experiences in ways that you and I could never ever have frankly wished to experience. I do everything in my power to protect my children's future including the way I voted. That's my responsibility as a parent and one I never ever take lightly. I see far more harm being dished out to the needy of this country due to the actions of this Tory government than any thing that could be possibly served up be leaving or remaining in the EU. All in the name of austerity. Their struggles, whether it be leaving University with crippling debt, not being able to access affordable housing, seeing their healthcare provision eroded away, are all consequences of the actions of the nation state government and the un-elected representatives in the house of Lords (yes we have un-elected politicians too). So while we argue the toss over stuff that might or might never come to pass in the EU we continue to let our own government and politicians off the hook for the damage they continue to cause to the country and it's people. Over and out

04-07-16, 09:20 AM	#345
spink Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: yorkshire Posts: 1,525	http://www.infowars.com/video-stupid...t-millennials/

04-07-16, 02:05 PM	#348
TeXerv Grown up member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Northern Krautland Posts: 241	From the outside it looks more and more chaotic. First a few guys throw the UK into turmoil and then one after another they steal themselves away. And the government possibly plans to make the UK a tax haven. The employees and workers will take much pleasure in that.