CGT gearbox / clutch problem - Page 7

84CoupeGT · 18-10-22, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BackintheFold

The "generic picture" doesn't help here does it!

They take 30 day returns-buy it, keep it spotlessly clean, if it isn't the same as yours then send it back.
Or send them photos of yours and ask them to check.

When I had a B2 90 back in the 90's, many shops told me my car didn't exist at all.

"Computer says no" mentality that will kill us all!

Exactly! Very unhelpful to not have a photo. I've messaged again with some pics of mine so we'll see what they say. Good point about the return, I guess I may have to give that a go. I've got an old school parts supplier searching through his old parts catalogues for cross references though, so I really hope that comes up trumps... I'd much rather buy off him as he's really helpful and friendly. He found me a NOS clutch cable for £18 which I thought was a bargain!

It does frustrate me, especially the times I have phoned Audi and they barely stop short of guffawing down the phone when I mention the reg. That and the fact Audi Tradition don't give a damn about sorting out shipping to the UK anymore!

quattrodave · 18-10-22, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84CoupeGT

Funnily enough that is the exact item I contacted the seller and they are insistent it won't fit my car. I've explained everything, they said they contacted their technical department (not sure I believe them) who confirmed it won't fit!

So sat at home on PC caught covid

so basically just browsing whilst I cant do owt else !, I found that the 215mm clutch kit with 24 spline centre is listed as fitting the B2 coupe and 80/90 and also the 100 C1/C2 models as well as the Passat and Santana B2 models.

Using the zf catalog I found the nla sachs part number is 3000 101 002 (link here - https://aftermarket.zf.com/go/en/sac...4&countryID=GB )

This cross refs to the part numbers in the CK9261 clutch kit on the national site catalog (link here - https://national-auto.co.uk/wp-conte...logue_2022.pdf ) as fitting to the vehicles I mentioned so I definitely think that the kit here - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333745502...Bk9SR5aYkK_9YA is the correct one for your car in essense they don't know how

to search the catalog correctly.

I would just purchase it, worse case scenario is return postage costs.

84CoupeGT · 21-10-22, 07:03 PM

Thanks Dave, very helpful. Hope you're feeling better now!

I drew the same conclusion as you, that the CK9261 kit must fit unless Audi had 2 different types of 215mm 24 spline clutch going into cars at the same time, which (hopefully) seems unlikely!

I spoke to someone who had some old parts catalogues as well, and via some cross referencing he reckons that kit will fit as well, so I've ordered it. Annoyingly the seller says it won't have any warranty as it's not listed for my car, but I don't have a lot of choice unfortunately.

If anyone needs a 228mm 24 spline clutch kit, I've now got one that is surplus to requirements!

Cheers

84CoupeGT · 21-10-22, 07:13 PM

Forgot to post up a pic of the flywheel now it's been re surfaced. They said it came out better than expected, looks good to me anyway! (I will of course get my greasy fingerprints off before installing it!)

K Simmonds · 22-10-22, 11:32 AM

I've seen one friction disc like that before and I've done dozens of clutches on various make's and models of car, the one I've encountered was quite recently on a newish Vauxhall van. I have no idea what can cause that to happen, we're actually currently engaged in legal action with the Vauxhall clutch as it was only a year old and a supposedly good quality OE LUK replacement which I'd helped fit and everything was done correctly. We sent the old clutch back and took it up with LUK and got letter back that made absolutely no sense at all trying get out of admitting it was defective. The matter is on going.

Anyway, it certainly explains the problems you were having and the odd noises, to be fair in this case it looks like that's the original clutch so it's had a pretty good innings, though I still don't really understand the cause of such a failure when there's nothing else wrong with anything.

I like that gearbox jack, much safer than using a trolley jack.

I always remove the rear crank seal housing completely and change the seal on a workbench, it does take longer but make's life much easier.

Bad luck getting the wrong clutch, I'm sure someone will need it at some point though and it sounds like you've got the right one on the way. Still, I'm sure you were a little pissed off to say the least.

That flywheel looks great, certainly nothing wrong with that now.

84CoupeGT · 22-10-22, 04:04 PM

Cheers, yes it's hard to imagine what exactly happened to cause that. I was wondering if the plates were stuck together after sitting for so long and the damage to the friction plate happened the first time it was moved and got worse from there when I drove it. Wouldn't explain your recent Vauxhall one of course though.

New clutch has arrived...

Pressure plate looks ok and fits to the flywheel. Here it is with the old pressure plate for comparison...

The friction plate is a bit different, mainly the width of the friction material is narrower - 3cm compared with 3.5cm on the old one. Quite a significant difference... Hopefully it will be ok. Perhaps modern friction material is frictiony-er!?! Also the springs are larger on the old plate - looks a bit more heavy duty perhaps.

The hub is the same size, however it does protrude further out on the opposite end to the old friction plate. I think this is probably because the old one is damaged though, it does look as though the hub has been pushed through the plate.

Any thoughts on the friction disk welcome, but I don't really see what other options I have other than to fit it. Fingers crossed it will be ok.

Cheers

K Simmonds · 22-10-22, 06:48 PM

Your quite right the hub has been pushed through so that's not an issue, are the friction discs the same diameter?

The new one looks smaller in the pic though I think that's an optical illusion, as long as their the same diameter I wouldn't be too concerned about the smaller friction surface though I do wonder why it's narrower.

Have you try test fitting the friction disc to the input shaft of the gearbox yet? Just to be 100% sure that's correct.

84CoupeGT · 22-10-22, 08:56 PM

Yes, they're both 215mm. I think it should be fine... I'm not planning to drive like a lunatic (much

).

Unfortunately I'm at home at the moment (100 miles away from where the car is), so haven't been able to test fit anything yet. It might be a few weeks before I manage to get there again! I did measure the both hubs though (directly across tooth to tooth, and groove to groove), and they seem to be identical.

K Simmonds · 25-10-22, 06:44 AM

Just noticed there's no spigot bearing in the flywheel and the hole in the center look's too large for the one's I'm familiar with... I've never done a clutch on a B2 car so some of this is new to me. Is there a bearing in the end of the crankshaft instead or do these cars simply not use one?

The clutch actuation mechanism is also quite different to a B3/4 car, it works using the same basic principle but doesn't have a large fork, just a simple shaft with a pair of short arms on it.

I forgot to say well done getting the snapped exhaust stud out without access to a MIG, the access isn't exactly great even if you've got the car on a lift, doing lying on the deck must have been very irritating!

If you've compared the spline pattern to the old one and measured it accurately then I'm sure it'll be fine.

84CoupeGT · 26-10-22, 04:42 PM

Yes, there is a spigot bearing in the end of the crankshaft, see photo below. It can be removed with the flywheel in position, but either way you really need a slide hammer to get in behind it to get it out. I've not removed it yet, but I have a LUK replacement ready to go in.

I could do with a couple of bits for the clutch mechanism, a couple of bushes that hold it in place either side are a bit worn but I can't find them anywhere, so the old ones may have to go back in. I suppose I could see if I could get at least the metal one made up at the place that resurfaced the flywheel.

Thanks re: the snapped exhaust stud. Yes, access was difficult especially on my back under the car. One of the remaining studs made it especially difficult to get mole grips on it, but the extractor I bought really was a game changer, don't think I would have got it out otherwise!

Cheers

22-10-22, 11:32 AM	#65
K Simmonds Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 1,060	I've seen one friction disc like that before and I've done dozens of clutches on various make's and models of car, the one I've encountered was quite recently on a newish Vauxhall van. I have no idea what can cause that to happen, we're actually currently engaged in legal action with the Vauxhall clutch as it was only a year old and a supposedly good quality OE LUK replacement which I'd helped fit and everything was done correctly. We sent the old clutch back and took it up with LUK and got letter back that made absolutely no sense at all trying get out of admitting it was defective. The matter is on going. Anyway, it certainly explains the problems you were having and the odd noises, to be fair in this case it looks like that's the original clutch so it's had a pretty good innings, though I still don't really understand the cause of such a failure when there's nothing else wrong with anything. I like that gearbox jack, much safer than using a trolley jack. I always remove the rear crank seal housing completely and change the seal on a workbench, it does take longer but make's life much easier. Bad luck getting the wrong clutch, I'm sure someone will need it at some point though and it sounds like you've got the right one on the way. Still, I'm sure you were a little pissed off to say the least. That flywheel looks great, certainly nothing wrong with that now. __________________ Still have my RS2 tuck up safe, also a 1992 C4 2.8 Avant quattro and a B3 quattro Saloon G60 conversion in progress. Last edited by K Simmonds; 22-10-22 at 11:36 AM.

22-10-22, 06:48 PM	#67
K Simmonds Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 1,060	Your quite right the hub has been pushed through so that's not an issue, are the friction discs the same diameter? The new one looks smaller in the pic though I think that's an optical illusion, as long as their the same diameter I wouldn't be too concerned about the smaller friction surface though I do wonder why it's narrower. Have you try test fitting the friction disc to the input shaft of the gearbox yet? Just to be 100% sure that's correct. __________________ Still have my RS2 tuck up safe, also a 1992 C4 2.8 Avant quattro and a B3 quattro Saloon G60 conversion in progress.

22-10-22, 08:56 PM	#68
84CoupeGT Grown up member Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 309	Yes, they're both 215mm. I think it should be fine... I'm not planning to drive like a lunatic (much ). Unfortunately I'm at home at the moment (100 miles away from where the car is), so haven't been able to test fit anything yet. It might be a few weeks before I manage to get there again! I did measure the both hubs though (directly across tooth to tooth, and groove to groove), and they seem to be identical. Last edited by 84CoupeGT; 22-10-22 at 09:25 PM.

25-10-22, 06:44 AM	#69
K Simmonds Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 1,060	Just noticed there's no spigot bearing in the flywheel and the hole in the center look's too large for the one's I'm familiar with... I've never done a clutch on a B2 car so some of this is new to me. Is there a bearing in the end of the crankshaft instead or do these cars simply not use one? The clutch actuation mechanism is also quite different to a B3/4 car, it works using the same basic principle but doesn't have a large fork, just a simple shaft with a pair of short arms on it. I forgot to say well done getting the snapped exhaust stud out without access to a MIG, the access isn't exactly great even if you've got the car on a lift, doing lying on the deck must have been very irritating! If you've compared the spline pattern to the old one and measured it accurately then I'm sure it'll be fine. __________________ Still have my RS2 tuck up safe, also a 1992 C4 2.8 Avant quattro and a B3 quattro Saloon G60 conversion in progress.

21-10-22, 07:03 PM	#63
84CoupeGT Grown up member Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 309	Thanks Dave, very helpful. Hope you're feeling better now! I drew the same conclusion as you, that the CK9261 kit must fit unless Audi had 2 different types of 215mm 24 spline clutch going into cars at the same time, which (hopefully) seems unlikely! I spoke to someone who had some old parts catalogues as well, and via some cross referencing he reckons that kit will fit as well, so I've ordered it. Annoyingly the seller says it won't have any warranty as it's not listed for my car, but I don't have a lot of choice unfortunately. If anyone needs a 228mm 24 spline clutch kit, I've now got one that is surplus to requirements! Cheers

21-10-22, 07:13 PM	#64
84CoupeGT Grown up member Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 309	Forgot to post up a pic of the flywheel now it's been re surfaced. They said it came out better than expected, looks good to me anyway! (I will of course get my greasy fingerprints off before installing it!)

22-10-22, 04:04 PM	#66
84CoupeGT Grown up member Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 309	Cheers, yes it's hard to imagine what exactly happened to cause that. I was wondering if the plates were stuck together after sitting for so long and the damage to the friction plate happened the first time it was moved and got worse from there when I drove it. Wouldn't explain your recent Vauxhall one of course though. New clutch has arrived... Pressure plate looks ok and fits to the flywheel. Here it is with the old pressure plate for comparison... The friction plate is a bit different, mainly the width of the friction material is narrower - 3cm compared with 3.5cm on the old one. Quite a significant difference... Hopefully it will be ok. Perhaps modern friction material is frictiony-er!?! Also the springs are larger on the old plate - looks a bit more heavy duty perhaps. The hub is the same size, however it does protrude further out on the opposite end to the old friction plate. I think this is probably because the old one is damaged though, it does look as though the hub has been pushed through the plate. Any thoughts on the friction disk welcome, but I don't really see what other options I have other than to fit it. Fingers crossed it will be ok. Cheers

26-10-22, 04:42 PM	#70
84CoupeGT Grown up member Join Date: Nov 2020 Posts: 309	Yes, there is a spigot bearing in the end of the crankshaft, see photo below. It can be removed with the flywheel in position, but either way you really need a slide hammer to get in behind it to get it out. I've not removed it yet, but I have a LUK replacement ready to go in. I could do with a couple of bits for the clutch mechanism, a couple of bushes that hold it in place either side are a bit worn but I can't find them anywhere, so the old ones may have to go back in. I suppose I could see if I could get at least the metal one made up at the place that resurfaced the flywheel. Thanks re: the snapped exhaust stud. Yes, access was difficult especially on my back under the car. One of the remaining studs made it especially difficult to get mole grips on it, but the extractor I bought really was a game changer, don't think I would have got it out otherwise! Cheers