45mph in 50mph roadworks - Page 3

Emjay · 14-04-09, 08:29 PM

Right, deep breath, here goes. Please bear in mind I am recalling this from memory so without dragging out a huge file there may be some "innaccuracies" but hopefully you will get the drift.

I had 9 points on my license. 2 from static gatso's, one from a motorway offence. One day I went into Nottingham to get a puncture fixed. Got zapped by a scamera van. NIP follows a few days later stating I was doing 42 in a 30. So I was forced to go to court to avoid a ban under totting up. Plus I really didn't believe I was speeding, certainly not 42mph. I know the area well and the limits in force. I contacted a solicitor.

At the initial court hearing my solicitor requested video evidence and statements, calibration certificates etc from the police and an adjournment while we waited for said evidence to be made available. Meanwhile what we did know was that the speed gun used was the LT120 Speedscope which was making news headlines at the time. It had appeared on a BBC documentary and has been proven to provide a speeding reading off a brick wall!! So we felt we had a good case

A new hearing date was set. Next date arrived and no evidence. We asked and were granted an adjournment. On the 3rd adjournment we finally got the copy of the video etc from the police.

On the video evidence we had (if my memory serves me correctly) 15 to 20 seconds of evidence. I was coming from behind the operator who was focussed on a BMW travelling towards him. I come into view as he his dropping the camera down. He pulls the camera up sharpish, tries to get a fix on my number plate. Gets error code 03 which is a bad lock error (http://www.pepipoo.com/LTi2020_screen.htm). He actually gets this error twice. We calculated that in all the video evidence there was about 1 second where the camera actually got a good fix. So far we are feeling confident. To be certain we enlisted the advice of a known technical specialist in these cases. He defended himself successfully against a Speedscope charge and is active in helping others defend their cases. The report that came back was devastating. In his opinion there was enough evidence to make a conviction and this is the bit that hurts. The minimum speeding time admissible as evidence is 0.8 seconds. So in the whole video sequence, no matter how much the operator contrives to **** up getting a reading, all he requires is 0.8 of a second of evidence to convict. He had the required evidence and we felt it would be hard to convince the magistrates otherwise.

By this time I was running up a significant legal bill and we had to decide wether I wanted to plead not guilty and challenge further. This would have been a significant risk as if found guilty then I would have been in a real mess with my own costs, plus fines, plus prosectutions costs from a long drawn out court case. Bear in mind I was in middle of my marriage breakdown and seperation, finances weren't healthy so I decided to cut loose, plead guilty and plead exceptional hardship. Company car, could lose my job etc.

So in went the plea, magistrates decided not to ban me. I got 3 points and a £600 fine. Apparently if I had made the plea earlier and not kept adjourning then the fine could have been less.!!! And that's the shitter. I excercise my legal right to see the evidence the police have against me and to prepare a defence case accordingly and I get a bigger fine. Solicitors fees were £1500 so a costly lesson.

My take aways from the whole experience are:

Forget innocent until proven guilty. For these cases your are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. There have been court cases in the European Courts arguing this case. So far all cases have been unsuccessful but if one ever does get through then it will put this whole legislation into chaos.

Don't speed. If you decide to take the risk, then be prepared to accept the consequences. I have calmed my driving down considerably since though days and you know what? I don't get from A to B any slower and I am far less stressed behind the wheel.

pimpdriver · 14-04-09, 08:57 PM

and I presume you got some advice and assistance (circumstancial of course) from pepipoo.com?

quattrokid · 14-04-09, 09:00 PM

what a story.
Makes my blood boil these bastards.... no appologies for my French becuase its deserved and we all know it.

I have slowed down driving as well... and 1 thing that REALLY pisses me off is to see a " safety camera van" parked on a bridge on a long straight of the M74 in Cumbria on Sunday morning at 9am sunny conditions, dry and about 7 cars spotted in 45 minutes of my journey.So now I sit around 74mph less than 10% out, should be ok there, but my God does it take restraint in the RS when an empty motorway becons... AS YOU SAY ITS NOT WORTH IT NOW driving isnt fun anymore but a means of getting from A-B long gone are the days we go out for a drive for the pleasure of it.
got to get to the Autobahns before theyre regulated in the RS4 ten come back sell up all the Audi's and buy something that cant get past 70.

BIG BREATHS.... WHERE THE F*** IS THERE "SAFETY" IN THIS EH

0.8 SECONDS for a convictional evidence. He cant even hold the camera straight. If I was the magistrate I would wrap it around his neck and do him for wasting court time.

As for that specialist... what a wankre!!

hope your ok now mate.

quattrokid · 14-04-09, 09:02 PM

dam duplication again! sorry

Emjay · 14-04-09, 09:05 PM

I get far more driving pleasure these days driving the coupe on the inside lane and taking all the admiring looks as cars go past, pointy fingers and stares. Heads out of windows to grab a look, thumbs ups, waves. You don't get that flashing by them at a ton.

pimpdriver · 14-04-09, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quattrokid

driving isnt fun anymore but a means of getting from A-B long gone are the days we go out for a drive for the pleasure of it.
got to get to the Autobahns before theyre regulated in the RS4 ten come back sell up all the Audi's and buy something that cant get past 70.

I would absolutely love your girlie's RS4, I have only been out in an R8 and that was quick (as passenger) and a Scooby Prodrive P1.

My 80CL has 75 (maybe 80!!!) bhp, but because it is raw, you feel like you are going faster than you are.

Slow is the new fast!

quattrokid · 14-04-09, 09:18 PM

lol

driven an R8 as well... @ 60

Helens car is great for twisty windies WAY up north of Scotland, dont see anyone up there...PERFECT
had Archie out since I got him back a few weeks ago, sorted the exhaust so now its all SS straight through, sounds bloody brilliant

I just love the down changes and coming into towns as the ex noise reverberates off buildings, windows down, skyhatch open and a smile on my face like that dental advert.

Stopped for fuel today and while I was in the que to pay a police car pulled in for fuel as well....(local plod from Strathaven) didnt think anything of it until I emerged from the garage shop to find BOTH rozzers walking around it.

oh bollocks here I go as I passed them a few days ago with the loud pedal down going up a hill

I just walked over, smiled

opened the door and jumped in.... FIRED UP THE QUATTRO with a good boot full of revs....

what did Archie do... a loud bang and fart RIGHT in the middle of the forecourt a) I jumped, b) the rozzer behind me jumped because I waited until he was bent over reading my stickers on the back window
c) I said " OOPS" to the one next to the drivers side window and drove off

oh well.... thats me tagged then

Nigel Conniford · 15-04-09, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baldy

i think main reason for ppl slowing down so much in roadworks is innacurate speedos from some of the things i've driven when u compare the speed to a gps had a mitsubishi pick up that was out by 8mph at 60 .whereas all you yorkie munching crew probably have accurate speedos

Yep, well they are ment to be, they get checked and recalibrated every two years

Booty · 15-04-09, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Conniford

Yep, well they are ment to be, they get checked and recalibrated every two years

And should be defected with immediate action if not working correctly and then rectified within 7 days, needing to be re-calibrated and thus re- sealed.

Nigel Conniford · 16-04-09, 07:32 AM

Yes Boss, I forgot to mention that

Sorry

14-04-09, 09:00 PM	#23
quattrokid 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ayrshire Posts: 9,654	what a story. Makes my blood boil these bastards.... no appologies for my French becuase its deserved and we all know it. I have slowed down driving as well... and 1 thing that REALLY pisses me off is to see a " safety camera van" parked on a bridge on a long straight of the M74 in Cumbria on Sunday morning at 9am sunny conditions, dry and about 7 cars spotted in 45 minutes of my journey.So now I sit around 74mph less than 10% out, should be ok there, but my God does it take restraint in the RS when an empty motorway becons... AS YOU SAY ITS NOT WORTH IT NOW driving isnt fun anymore but a means of getting from A-B long gone are the days we go out for a drive for the pleasure of it. got to get to the Autobahns before theyre regulated in the RS4 ten come back sell up all the Audi's and buy something that cant get past 70. BIG BREATHS.... WHERE THE F*** IS THERE "SAFETY" IN THIS EH 0.8 SECONDS for a convictional evidence. He cant even hold the camera straight. If I was the magistrate I would wrap it around his neck and do him for wasting court time. As for that specialist... what a wankre!! hope your ok now mate. __________________ RS4 B5 (wife's / ours now ) S3 8L Imola Yellow S3 8L Nogaro blue UrWR SOLD UrS4 saloon (SOLD again) S4 Cabrio (SOLD) A4 cabrio 2.5 V6tdi (SOLD) 80 cabrio 2.6 V6 SOLD 90 quattro 10v SOLD 100 2.2e SOLD FOUNDING MEMBER the 200,000 Plus miles Club

14-04-09, 09:02 PM	#24
quattrokid 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ayrshire Posts: 9,654	dam duplication again! sorry __________________ RS4 B5 (wife's / ours now ) S3 8L Imola Yellow S3 8L Nogaro blue UrWR SOLD UrS4 saloon (SOLD again) S4 Cabrio (SOLD) A4 cabrio 2.5 V6tdi (SOLD) 80 cabrio 2.6 V6 SOLD 90 quattro 10v SOLD 100 2.2e SOLD FOUNDING MEMBER the 200,000 Plus miles Club

14-04-09, 09:18 PM	#27
quattrokid 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ayrshire Posts: 9,654	lol driven an R8 as well... @ 60 Helens car is great for twisty windies WAY up north of Scotland, dont see anyone up there...PERFECT had Archie out since I got him back a few weeks ago, sorted the exhaust so now its all SS straight through, sounds bloody brilliant I just love the down changes and coming into towns as the ex noise reverberates off buildings, windows down, skyhatch open and a smile on my face like that dental advert. Stopped for fuel today and while I was in the que to pay a police car pulled in for fuel as well....(local plod from Strathaven) didnt think anything of it until I emerged from the garage shop to find BOTH rozzers walking around it. oh bollocks here I go as I passed them a few days ago with the loud pedal down going up a hill I just walked over, smiled opened the door and jumped in.... FIRED UP THE QUATTRO with a good boot full of revs.... what did Archie do... a loud bang and fart RIGHT in the middle of the forecourt a) I jumped, b) the rozzer behind me jumped because I waited until he was bent over reading my stickers on the back window c) I said " OOPS" to the one next to the drivers side window and drove off oh well.... thats me tagged then __________________ RS4 B5 (wife's / ours now ) S3 8L Imola Yellow S3 8L Nogaro blue UrWR SOLD UrS4 saloon (SOLD again) S4 Cabrio (SOLD) A4 cabrio 2.5 V6tdi (SOLD) 80 cabrio 2.6 V6 SOLD 90 quattro 10v SOLD 100 2.2e SOLD FOUNDING MEMBER the 200,000 Plus miles Club

16-04-09, 07:32 AM	#30
Nigel Conniford Chief Sausage Meister!! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,614	Yes Boss, I forgot to mention that Sorry __________________ Horsepower is the force that determines at what speed you hit the wall, Torque is the force that determines how far you take the wall with you after you hit it.

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14-04-09, 08:29 PM	#21
Emjay Man Fettler Extraodinaire Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Up my own arse blowing smoke Posts: 7,417	Right, deep breath, here goes. Please bear in mind I am recalling this from memory so without dragging out a huge file there may be some "innaccuracies" but hopefully you will get the drift. I had 9 points on my license. 2 from static gatso's, one from a motorway offence. One day I went into Nottingham to get a puncture fixed. Got zapped by a scamera van. NIP follows a few days later stating I was doing 42 in a 30. So I was forced to go to court to avoid a ban under totting up. Plus I really didn't believe I was speeding, certainly not 42mph. I know the area well and the limits in force. I contacted a solicitor. At the initial court hearing my solicitor requested video evidence and statements, calibration certificates etc from the police and an adjournment while we waited for said evidence to be made available. Meanwhile what we did know was that the speed gun used was the LT120 Speedscope which was making news headlines at the time. It had appeared on a BBC documentary and has been proven to provide a speeding reading off a brick wall!! So we felt we had a good case A new hearing date was set. Next date arrived and no evidence. We asked and were granted an adjournment. On the 3rd adjournment we finally got the copy of the video etc from the police. On the video evidence we had (if my memory serves me correctly) 15 to 20 seconds of evidence. I was coming from behind the operator who was focussed on a BMW travelling towards him. I come into view as he his dropping the camera down. He pulls the camera up sharpish, tries to get a fix on my number plate. Gets error code 03 which is a bad lock error (http://www.pepipoo.com/LTi2020_screen.htm). He actually gets this error twice. We calculated that in all the video evidence there was about 1 second where the camera actually got a good fix. So far we are feeling confident. To be certain we enlisted the advice of a known technical specialist in these cases. He defended himself successfully against a Speedscope charge and is active in helping others defend their cases. The report that came back was devastating. In his opinion there was enough evidence to make a conviction and this is the bit that hurts. The minimum speeding time admissible as evidence is 0.8 seconds. So in the whole video sequence, no matter how much the operator contrives to **** up getting a reading, all he requires is 0.8 of a second of evidence to convict. He had the required evidence and we felt it would be hard to convince the magistrates otherwise. By this time I was running up a significant legal bill and we had to decide wether I wanted to plead not guilty and challenge further. This would have been a significant risk as if found guilty then I would have been in a real mess with my own costs, plus fines, plus prosectutions costs from a long drawn out court case. Bear in mind I was in middle of my marriage breakdown and seperation, finances weren't healthy so I decided to cut loose, plead guilty and plead exceptional hardship. Company car, could lose my job etc. So in went the plea, magistrates decided not to ban me. I got 3 points and a £600 fine. Apparently if I had made the plea earlier and not kept adjourning then the fine could have been less.!!! And that's the shitter. I excercise my legal right to see the evidence the police have against me and to prepare a defence case accordingly and I get a bigger fine. Solicitors fees were £1500 so a costly lesson. My take aways from the whole experience are: Forget innocent until proven guilty. For these cases your are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. There have been court cases in the European Courts arguing this case. So far all cases have been unsuccessful but if one ever does get through then it will put this whole legislation into chaos. Don't speed. If you decide to take the risk, then be prepared to accept the consequences. I have calmed my driving down considerably since though days and you know what? I don't get from A to B any slower and I am far less stressed behind the wheel.

14-04-09, 08:57 PM	#22
pimpdriver Devon Pastie Muncher Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Calne Wiltshire Posts: 7,530	and I presume you got some advice and assistance (circumstancial of course) from pepipoo.com?

14-04-09, 09:05 PM	#25
Emjay Man Fettler Extraodinaire Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Up my own arse blowing smoke Posts: 7,417	I get far more driving pleasure these days driving the coupe on the inside lane and taking all the admiring looks as cars go past, pointy fingers and stares. Heads out of windows to grab a look, thumbs ups, waves. You don't get that flashing by them at a ton.