Mk2 Golf G60 Limited £80K - Why Not A 90 20v? - Page 2

K Simmonds · 09-07-22, 01:50 PM

Tim Styles used to be 'THE' MK2 guy!

Was it the 1900 8V demo car? Suspect it was, that thing was supposed to crazy.

I ran Boge dampers and 16V specific Eibach springs on my KR, they only lowered it 10mm as 16V's are 20mm lower from the factory. Those are the only aftermarket springs I've tried that were as good or better than the stock ones. Combined with poly bush's it made for one of the best handling cars I've ever driven.

But if you asked me what car I'd rather drive to Scotland in I'd take the Audi every time.....That said I'd love to do the North Coast 500 in a 16V.

Isimmo · 09-07-22, 02:05 PM

Yes, the very one.

It was just bonkers.

I also had a drive of his old white Audi 80 Quattro rally car with the tuned 2144cc KK engine. (That’s what went into my old GT, built by Nick Larsen - I think his name was, their guru engine builder). The 80 Quattro had permanently locked diffs, it was bloody awful…

K Simmonds · 09-07-22, 03:19 PM

Yep, Nick Larsen used to work for Tim, I think he may have worked or at least did some work for Brian Rickets as well.

Solid diff's on tarmac equals no fun at all unless you've got 600 odd BHP, like getting through tyre's VERY quickly and going everywhere sideways.... Might have been okay on gravel or ice though.

That 1900 8V had less BHP on paper than a stock 16V (mid 130's compared to mid 140's) but with a totally insane power delivery, I suspect a super light flywheel making it very snappy.

Obli · 09-07-22, 04:08 PM

Interesting - sounds like a little hooligan machine!

There's a noticeable performance (weight) difference between the fwd and quattro 20vs. I've driven both 90 20v and 90 20v quattro. The quattro feels slower. It doesn't have the same pace or eagerness. Also geared differently. Iirc, the 90 handles better than a Coupe due to the extra structural rigidity. Not sure if it's lighter again?

Keep the revs between 4.5 and 7k and it'll keep up - maybe!

Always remember my mates lovely Alfa 164 3.0 V6 Cloverleaf. Might have had 230bhp, but it's 300+ kg heavier and couldn't drop me.

Kit, when I'm back on the road, I'll bring it over �� Do you do MOTs?

Still, would love to try a 16v Golf!

K Simmonds · 09-07-22, 05:44 PM

A 16V MK2 running properly is a hooligan tool. I could get to Cardiff over the Brecon Beacons and down the A470 faster in mine than I could in either of my Corrado's, VR6 or G60. That's over 45 miles of all sorts of roads, so a fair trial, the VR6 had 190BHP, that should give you some idea of how rapid they can be.

That was before they totally redid the mountain road, now I would be so sure as it's much straighter, Dave will know exactly what I mean.

The only thing that would slow me down in a 16 valve is cooked brakes or tyre's.

At 1200kg a FWD drive 7A should be no slouch at at all, the Golf just takes it on handling and outright performance. Though I suspect the 7A has a slightly higher top speed, I know the Golf would have it over a standing 1/4 but it would be down to difference in driver ability, so close.

A good 8V is a lot of fun and a seriously fast car but a 16V is a B road weapon. If you ever get the chance to have a go in one be ready for a surprise, especially if your on a track.

Actually, you might be able to try my G60 Mk2 quite soon as that's not far off running now, that's got a bit more go again than a 16V, though it's heavier and doesn't have the savage top end so still not quite the same, but it would give you a good idea.

I don't do MOT's personally, but I do a pre inspection and the guy I take cars to is very good, been dealing with him since I past my test. He's very fair and if something needs a tweak like say headlamp alignment he just does it as part of the test as along as the adjusters work.

K Simmonds · 09-07-22, 06:16 PM

I would certainly agree that a B3 Saloon handles way better than a B3 Coupe, it's got a rear bulk head which even though it's mostly only one skin of steel makes hell of a difference, I guess the tank is bolted to it as well which probably helps.

I don't know the difference's in weight off the top of my head will have to look it up.

The plan for my 80 is totally strip it out, which I've already done as the interior when I got it was beyond any sort of recovery, it literally all got ripped out and went straight on a bonfire, it now has a pair of very tidy B3 Coupe front seats and nothing else apart from the dash and stripped door cards.

The seats are getting changed for a pair of C4 one's I have knocking about still as they're worthless and the Coupe ones have value as I have the complete rear set up to go with them.

I'm going to remove all the sound deadening, surprising how much that weighs, pulled over 25 kg's of tar out of my S2 and fit a fast road cam to the 3A engine, their short stroke so love to rev.

And leave it at that, then if I ever get the chance of decent interior I can restore it nicely.

Though it really is last on my list of projects.

K Simmonds · 09-07-22, 09:04 PM

Out of curiosity I've just looked up the various weights of B3 Coupes VS Saloons, this is from 'Ultimatespec's which is an American site so these cars will all have aircon as well as heavier bumpers and extra emission's nonsense.

Hence I don't believe these numbers are correct when it comes to UK car's, well I know they're not, simple. But it will do for comparison purposes.

FWD 20V Coupe. 1210kg's, 168BHP, 0-60 8.6 Seconds

FWD 20V Saloon. 1200kg's, 168BHP, 0-60 8.6 Seconds

Golf 16V. 990kg's, 139BHP, 0-60, 8.4 Seconds.

Golf G60. 1032kg;s 158BHP, 0-60 8.3 Seconds.

2.0 B3 Saloon quattro. 1166kg's, 111BHP, 0-60 11.6 Seconds.

James... Your welcome to come and visit with your car regardless.

I can also arrange the MOT for you as if it's booked in your legal to drive it here, though you need to be sure it's going to pass, will happily spend a couple of hours going over the car with you FOC.

However if you've got a place you trust closer to home that would probably be better just in case it fails on something silly we can't put right at the test center.

Though if I booked a morning slot we'd have until 6.00 pm to take it back to be signed off after sorting whatever the issue may be. My guy needs about a months notice though for a booking as he's very busy as well as in demand.

Obli · 09-07-22, 11:15 PM

Thanks Kit.

We've got an old road test here somewhere from July 1990 VW Audi CAR magazine. They had figures on the 90 20v. Will see if I can find it. I seem to remember 7.6s 0-60 and 139mph top (book) speed.

I think the 1/4 mile would be close but I would put my money on the Audi

Here's a POV drive of a GTi 16v:
https://youtu.be/xg210FS0DpE

Thank you for offering to help with the MOT. That's very kind. Didn't mean to be angling for your assistance or anything like that. I have no idea what's going to crop up so think you're right, I'd better get somewhere close to home.

But after that I fancy a road trip

tractor Dave · 10-07-22, 07:16 AM

I think the gti in that video has been heavily modified. Maybe better suited to track? Bouncing around all over the place and quite unstable. My stock gti was rock solid through the bends and didn't mind poor Welsh roads at all. She would lift a back wheel sometimes if you turned in a little aggressively and front wheels would start to loose grip on the limit but it was very easy to feel that coming and a very safe car to push hard.

Obli · 10-07-22, 09:54 AM

Yes, it's definitely modified.

Here's a nice video of a late spec 90 20v.
https://youtu.be/IKBdveafs5A

I believe Coxy used to own this one.
I'd have to get a bag of snakes on there, though!

09-07-22, 01:50 PM	#11
K Simmonds Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 1,060	Tim Styles used to be 'THE' MK2 guy! Was it the 1900 8V demo car? Suspect it was, that thing was supposed to crazy. I ran Boge dampers and 16V specific Eibach springs on my KR, they only lowered it 10mm as 16V's are 20mm lower from the factory. Those are the only aftermarket springs I've tried that were as good or better than the stock ones. Combined with poly bush's it made for one of the best handling cars I've ever driven. But if you asked me what car I'd rather drive to Scotland in I'd take the Audi every time.....That said I'd love to do the North Coast 500 in a 16V. __________________ Still have my RS2 tuck up safe, also a 1992 C4 2.8 Avant quattro and a B3 quattro Saloon G60 conversion in progress.

09-07-22, 02:05 PM	#12
Isimmo Super Moderator Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sissix-by-the-sea Posts: 15,218	Yes, the very one. It was just bonkers. I also had a drive of his old white Audi 80 Quattro rally car with the tuned 2144cc KK engine. (That’s what went into my old GT, built by Nick Larsen - I think his name was, their guru engine builder). The 80 Quattro had permanently locked diffs, it was bloody awful… __________________ 1985 WR quattro, 1985 20vT RallyRep, 1993 MTM ABY S2 Avant. 2010 S3 Sportback.

09-07-22, 03:19 PM	#13
K Simmonds Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 1,060	Yep, Nick Larsen used to work for Tim, I think he may have worked or at least did some work for Brian Rickets as well. Solid diff's on tarmac equals no fun at all unless you've got 600 odd BHP, like getting through tyre's VERY quickly and going everywhere sideways.... Might have been okay on gravel or ice though. That 1900 8V had less BHP on paper than a stock 16V (mid 130's compared to mid 140's) but with a totally insane power delivery, I suspect a super light flywheel making it very snappy. __________________ Still have my RS2 tuck up safe, also a 1992 C4 2.8 Avant quattro and a B3 quattro Saloon G60 conversion in progress.

09-07-22, 04:08 PM	#14
Obli Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 267	Interesting - sounds like a little hooligan machine! There's a noticeable performance (weight) difference between the fwd and quattro 20vs. I've driven both 90 20v and 90 20v quattro. The quattro feels slower. It doesn't have the same pace or eagerness. Also geared differently. Iirc, the 90 handles better than a Coupe due to the extra structural rigidity. Not sure if it's lighter again? Keep the revs between 4.5 and 7k and it'll keep up - maybe! Always remember my mates lovely Alfa 164 3.0 V6 Cloverleaf. Might have had 230bhp, but it's 300+ kg heavier and couldn't drop me. Kit, when I'm back on the road, I'll bring it over �� Do you do MOTs? Still, would love to try a 16v Golf! Last edited by Obli; 09-07-22 at 04:18 PM.

09-07-22, 05:44 PM	#15
K Simmonds Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 1,060	A 16V MK2 running properly is a hooligan tool. I could get to Cardiff over the Brecon Beacons and down the A470 faster in mine than I could in either of my Corrado's, VR6 or G60. That's over 45 miles of all sorts of roads, so a fair trial, the VR6 had 190BHP, that should give you some idea of how rapid they can be. That was before they totally redid the mountain road, now I would be so sure as it's much straighter, Dave will know exactly what I mean. The only thing that would slow me down in a 16 valve is cooked brakes or tyre's. At 1200kg a FWD drive 7A should be no slouch at at all, the Golf just takes it on handling and outright performance. Though I suspect the 7A has a slightly higher top speed, I know the Golf would have it over a standing 1/4 but it would be down to difference in driver ability, so close. A good 8V is a lot of fun and a seriously fast car but a 16V is a B road weapon. If you ever get the chance to have a go in one be ready for a surprise, especially if your on a track. Actually, you might be able to try my G60 Mk2 quite soon as that's not far off running now, that's got a bit more go again than a 16V, though it's heavier and doesn't have the savage top end so still not quite the same, but it would give you a good idea. I don't do MOT's personally, but I do a pre inspection and the guy I take cars to is very good, been dealing with him since I past my test. He's very fair and if something needs a tweak like say headlamp alignment he just does it as part of the test as along as the adjusters work. __________________ Still have my RS2 tuck up safe, also a 1992 C4 2.8 Avant quattro and a B3 quattro Saloon G60 conversion in progress. Last edited by K Simmonds; 09-07-22 at 05:56 PM.

09-07-22, 06:16 PM	#16
K Simmonds Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 1,060	I would certainly agree that a B3 Saloon handles way better than a B3 Coupe, it's got a rear bulk head which even though it's mostly only one skin of steel makes hell of a difference, I guess the tank is bolted to it as well which probably helps. I don't know the difference's in weight off the top of my head will have to look it up. The plan for my 80 is totally strip it out, which I've already done as the interior when I got it was beyond any sort of recovery, it literally all got ripped out and went straight on a bonfire, it now has a pair of very tidy B3 Coupe front seats and nothing else apart from the dash and stripped door cards. The seats are getting changed for a pair of C4 one's I have knocking about still as they're worthless and the Coupe ones have value as I have the complete rear set up to go with them. I'm going to remove all the sound deadening, surprising how much that weighs, pulled over 25 kg's of tar out of my S2 and fit a fast road cam to the 3A engine, their short stroke so love to rev. And leave it at that, then if I ever get the chance of decent interior I can restore it nicely. Though it really is last on my list of projects. __________________ Still have my RS2 tuck up safe, also a 1992 C4 2.8 Avant quattro and a B3 quattro Saloon G60 conversion in progress. Last edited by K Simmonds; 09-07-22 at 06:19 PM.

09-07-22, 09:04 PM	#17
K Simmonds Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mid Wales Posts: 1,060	Out of curiosity I've just looked up the various weights of B3 Coupes VS Saloons, this is from 'Ultimatespec's which is an American site so these cars will all have aircon as well as heavier bumpers and extra emission's nonsense. Hence I don't believe these numbers are correct when it comes to UK car's, well I know they're not, simple. But it will do for comparison purposes. FWD 20V Coupe. 1210kg's, 168BHP, 0-60 8.6 Seconds FWD 20V Saloon. 1200kg's, 168BHP, 0-60 8.6 Seconds Golf 16V. 990kg's, 139BHP, 0-60, 8.4 Seconds. Golf G60. 1032kg;s 158BHP, 0-60 8.3 Seconds. 2.0 B3 Saloon quattro. 1166kg's, 111BHP, 0-60 11.6 Seconds. James... Your welcome to come and visit with your car regardless. I can also arrange the MOT for you as if it's booked in your legal to drive it here, though you need to be sure it's going to pass, will happily spend a couple of hours going over the car with you FOC. However if you've got a place you trust closer to home that would probably be better just in case it fails on something silly we can't put right at the test center. Though if I booked a morning slot we'd have until 6.00 pm to take it back to be signed off after sorting whatever the issue may be. My guy needs about a months notice though for a booking as he's very busy as well as in demand. __________________ Still have my RS2 tuck up safe, also a 1992 C4 2.8 Avant quattro and a B3 quattro Saloon G60 conversion in progress. Last edited by K Simmonds; 09-07-22 at 09:06 PM.

09-07-22, 11:15 PM	#18
Obli Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 267	Thanks Kit. We've got an old road test here somewhere from July 1990 VW Audi CAR magazine. They had figures on the 90 20v. Will see if I can find it. I seem to remember 7.6s 0-60 and 139mph top (book) speed. I think the 1/4 mile would be close but I would put my money on the Audi Here's a POV drive of a GTi 16v: https://youtu.be/xg210FS0DpE Thank you for offering to help with the MOT. That's very kind. Didn't mean to be angling for your assistance or anything like that. I have no idea what's going to crop up so think you're right, I'd better get somewhere close to home. But after that I fancy a road trip

10-07-22, 07:16 AM	#19
tractor Dave Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Wales Posts: 1,174	I think the gti in that video has been heavily modified. Maybe better suited to track? Bouncing around all over the place and quite unstable. My stock gti was rock solid through the bends and didn't mind poor Welsh roads at all. She would lift a back wheel sometimes if you turned in a little aggressively and front wheels would start to loose grip on the limit but it was very easy to feel that coming and a very safe car to push hard.

10-07-22, 09:54 AM	#20
Obli Grown up member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 267	Yes, it's definitely modified. Here's a nice video of a late spec 90 20v. https://youtu.be/IKBdveafs5A I believe Coxy used to own this one. I'd have to get a bag of snakes on there, though!