Is the EV Dead on Arrival?

[Obli]

Is the EV dead on arrival?

Excellent video (and channel), well worth watching.

https://youtu.be/tH8ll5VboC8

Personally, I think the improvements in the internal combustion engine - emissions, performance and efficiency - have been quite significant in the past 10 years and that would suggest there's plenty more headroom. It's too soon to stop ICE development.

There are many big, heavy cars on the road these days and EVs are heavy. They're wearing out suspension parts, tyres and the roads more quickly. Not sure about brakes as there's regenerative braking.

I'm still skeptical how EVs can be manufactured and adopted at scale. Im not sure we're currently able to mine the required quantity of materials to suit the projected EV demand. I won't go into the mining conditions in some countries for these rare earth metals.

What about the running costs of an EV once the government stops generating so much from fuel duty and road tax? I've got two small petrol cars (both 2.3L engines, though) weighing a combined total of 2.5 tonnes. I'm paying ~£640 per year in road tax but doing about 5,500 miles a year in-all. Just how bad is it to keep 15-30 year old petrol cars going for 200,000 - 300,000 miles? If it really is the most environmentally sound solution, why am I being stung for it?

I'm not against the development of EV, just not convinced the technology and infrastructure is there yet. It'll come, yes, but I don't think there should be a cliff edge cut-off for development or sale of ICE vehicles.

My thinking for a while now is that this is a new 'everyone buy a diesel' situation in waiting and there will be a U-turn on policies.

Interested to hear others thoughts on the matter

[John.]

I'll watch the youtube video later.

I will say this though, just my opinion, surely it's better to repair and re-use what we already have? The manufacturing of a new car has an environmental impact, more so if it's electric....raping the land and sea for lithium* and cobalt for the batteries and then shipping these cars/batteries half way round the world isn't a good thing....... but some with X amount to spend on an EV per month (do people actually buy a car outright these days?) just want their neighbours and everyone else to think they're saving the planet ?

A car that's already been made and is kept in good serviceable condition is better?



* I read a bit on lithium mining in (I think it was) Bolivia, very corrupt goings on !!

[Ringmaster]

I agree...

EVs have their place, they are fine if you only do short distances and will undoubtedly help reduce air pollution in dense towns/cities, but an outright ban is not necessary. Alternative information to any climate change issue is not presented readily to the public and someone has to make an effort to discover this. Even the BBC has decalred that Climate Change is a given and they will not present alternative arguments. Where did the principle of balanced reporting go?

But if you look, information can be found from reasonable sources. The International Energy Agency (in Paris) announced that if all nations meet their EV targets by 2030, the C02 saved would reduce the Earth's temperature by only one, one thousandth of a degree centigrade.. Is the investment worth it?

Lots of C02 is generated in the manufacture of EVs, mainly due to the mining and processing of batteries. An EV will need to be driven between 4 and 6 years before it offsets the C02 released during its production. These figures vary according to factors used in their calculation. I now hear the increased weight of EVs will lead to greater particulate release into the environment due to extra tyre wear and recycling the batteries is apparently quite hazardous..

How are we going to convince the poorer folk of the world to swap the ICE vehicles for new EVs? I especially refer to those who keep their cars for decades. The Australian public are even more concerned about range anxiety as they face some of the greatest daily distances in the world (outside their cities) in some of the harshest conditions. Even the projected improvements in battery range and charging times suggest travel will require more thought for them than it does now.

It will be interesting to see how the government approaches raising revenue in the future. EV drivers think today's low running costs are here to stay.. The government already believes more technology is the answer via the use of pay per mile driving and little black boxes to track us or force us to have an app on our phones (what if you don't have a smart phone? What if you leave it at home?), but the practicalities of installing/monitoring/maintaining all those little gadgets has not been considered.

What if it fails? Does it stay with the car when sold? Can you disconnect the battery? Can they be cloned? I see loads of potential issues and little protection for the motorist from what 'Computer' says.

I just hope we will still be able to easily get petrol for our classics. We live in interesting times!!

[BackintheFold]

A real hot potato topic…

I have only one comment:
> Even the BBC has decalred that Climate Change is a given and they will not present alternative arguments. Where did the principle of balanced reporting go?

Do you claim that climate change is not happening? Or that it is, but it’s not affected by man?
Do you want the BBC to report on fake moon landings, flat earth and “no holocaust”?

[Ringmaster]

Originally Posted by BackintheFold

A real hot potato topic…

I have only one comment:
> Even the BBC has declared that Climate Change is a given and they will not present alternative arguments. Where did the principle of balanced reporting go?

Do you claim that climate change is not happening? Or that it is, but it’s not affected by man?
Do you want the BBC to report on fake moon landings, flat earth and “no holocaust”?

I'm saying it is essential to hear all that is being said by reputable sources on the matter, such as what I mentioned from the International Energy Agency. I don't think anyone could accuse them of being flat earthers!

Few people take the time to look into a subject more deeply and rely on general news, so it is very important that news is as balanced as possible. Good journalism cites the facts and the sources and people can make their minds up..

[theschmallfella]

I personally believe that getting rid of diesel cars is a positive step forward, but petrol cars as long as they're maintained properly I don't believe are impacting greatly on the environment in the overall scheme of things. In Ireland since the late 1990's we were sold the lie that diesel was the way forward, with the result that the vast majority of cars here is and has been diesel for the past 20 years. Now of course the EU has decided that diesel is bad and we need to get rid of them all. Fine by me, diesel is for tractors in my view.

That being said I've read that Porsche are working on a 0 impact biofuel that would replace petrol and keep the combustion engine alive, would this not be a better solution than eradicating real cars for the glorified hair dryers that are electric cars? And as Ringmaster said the environmental impact of producing said electric cars is far more damaging. Again with Electric I think we are being sold a lie. Better for the environment? I don't believe so, no.

Climate change is real, there's no denying that, but as usual the true cost to the environment of the impact of producing and maintaining electric vehicles is being glossed over in favour of governments being seen to be proactive in the 'fight against climate change'.

[Duffy3074]

Yep climate change is real, doing nothing wasn’t an option with regards to cars, there’s an environmental production cost to any car, what’s interesting is that manufacturers are getting smart with regards to recycling and used recycled material in production for EV’s (Look at what Renault are doing for example)
Personally I’ll hold no regrets seeing diesel disappear

[John.]

Originally Posted by theschmallfella

I personally believe that getting rid of diesel cars is a positive step forward

Originally Posted by Duffy3074

Personally I’ll hold no regrets seeing diesel disappear

Is the 2030 ban not diesel and petrol ? Pretty far fetched I think but if it does happen it'll maybe give some folks a wake up call to look after their car(s) to put off the purchase of an EV.