All this covid stuff.

[SorenR]

Originally Posted by 4v6

Im not anti vaccine, Ive had all my previous stuff Im just anti this one, its all been rushed and just has too many issues to be placing my trust in it.

I guess you take the flu shot when offered every year?

Well, surprise ... It's less tested than the Covid vaccines and they have to make a new every season.

I got the Pfeizer mRNA shot. It stays in the body for less than a week (long enough to train my immune system) - DNA based vaccine sometimes stay for years!

Actually american scientists around 2008-2010 experimented with mRNA vaccine for cancer therapy but had to give it up as it did not remain in the body long enough. Hopefully they will get a lot of statistical material from Covid.

[4v6]

Originally Posted by SorenR

I guess you take the flu shot when offered every year?

Well, surprise ... It's less tested than the Covid vaccines and they have to make a new every season.

I got the Pfeizer mRNA shot. It stays in the body for less than a week (long enough to train my immune system) - DNA based vaccine sometimes stay for years!

Actually american scientists around 2008-2010 experimented with mRNA vaccine for cancer therapy but had to give it up as it did not remain in the body long enough. Hopefully they will get a lot of statistical material from Covid.

Never had a flu shot, had the flu several times, was way worse than the original cv 19 variant.

The mrna vaccines dont start to confer any protection for up to 3 weeks after injection and depress the immune system for that period.
Not a great way to provide protection.
Family member triple jabbed, has cv 19 so its worked really well as a vaccine for them...

Bit more about adenoviral vectors and mrna here, not good reading really.

https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/...OVID-19/98/i19


The mask video Ive seen previously, Im unconvinced, especially when you see studies that show the opposite and demonstrate little effect in the real world.

https://www.reuters.com/article/heal...on-redirect=uk

Not a very scientific video here but does demonstrate the folly of thinking youre protetcted by a piece of cloth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJpS_jajub0

Regards.

[maxustaxus]

Originally Posted by BackintheFold

1-So you would happily sit in an underground carriage full of covid + passengers?

I think my point is that this remote hypothetical example is not the situation we actually face, and health policies should relate to the world as it is.

Originally Posted by BackintheFold

What value do you place on a 90 year old’s life? And your children, and other’s children? And your own life?

I may not have made myself clear. I place a very high value on life. Sadly sometimes as a society we have to balance one need against another. For example, the lives saved from Covid by NHS staff isolating versus the lives lost due to delayed cancer treatment etc. We have a responsibility to measure all costs...not just from Covid...and not just in terms of years lived, but the quality of life.

Originally Posted by BackintheFold

If I am covid +, do you agree that I should reduce the likelihood of transmission by wearing a standard mask

IF you know you have Covid+ I want you to stay indoors. Keep away, a standard mask will make little if any difference. Otherwise, as Covid will always be with us...if you have no reason to think you are Covid+ please decide for yourself whether you want to wear a mask just in case. It is the compulsory mandates for relatively ineffective measures and small risks of mortality that I object to. We cannot live like this forever.

Originally Posted by BackintheFold

4) are you happy to be allowed to die now if the cost of saving your life is more than I want to spend?

This an interesting hypothetical case. As a society there are limits to the value of life. We do not spend all we have giving treatments in all sorts of specific cases, because the money is better spent on the common welfare. I would not expect heaven and earth to be moved so that my wretched life be extended. And there are values we as a society have in the past been willing to die for. So to an extent the answer to your question is yes, I accept that I am mortal, and my right to treatments paid for by others has limits. I do not expect the entire general population to limit their lives JUST IN CASE I may live a year a few years longer.

Originally Posted by BackintheFold

Why bother vaccinating the elderly who are going to die of something soon anyway? What benefit do they bring to me specifically, or society generally?...Surely a cost benefit analysis would require them to die?

I might not have made myself clear again. I entirely support vaccination for any adult able to give free and informed consent. I think they work (mostly in reducing symptoms), and are an extremely cost-effective measure. As I say, it is compulsion/coercion I object to on ethical grounds.

I do not think closing schools, lockdowns, and a variety of other measures are cost effective at present. They are a cure worse that the disease. Their cost versus effectiveness is too great IMHO.


Please forgive me if I don't reply too...its a time thing.

[SorenR]

Insider Covid statistics for Denmark - that is not mentioned in the media - 95% of all Covid deaths registered are unvaccinated of all ages. Young and old!

So, do as you please and MAYBE we'll talk again next year!

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/frederic...012744814.html

[urquattr085]

Can I say what a fabulously reasoned, mature and interesting debate.

All done without anyone throwing their toys out of the (presumably classic) pram.

Whilst not wishing to contribute, I do have my own opinions and there are many points here I both agree and disagree with - as it should be with any good debate.

A great example of free speech and free thinking and a credit to this community

[4v6]

Originally Posted by SorenR

Insider Covid statistics for Denmark - that is not mentioned in the media - 95% of all Covid deaths registered are unvaccinated of all ages. Young and old!

So, do as you please and MAYBE we'll talk again next year!

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/frederic...012744814.html

The same claims of 90% ish were being bandied about in the uk also, dont know the situation in Denmark so cant comment, but its an untrue statement here and now although it used to be.
It was only a couple of weeks back that our so called scientific officers were repeating it but its false and still gets trotted out so as to keep the fear factor high.

https://fullfact.org/health/economis...nation-status/

Great advice there and I agree 100%, people should do as they please and look after their own health not require others to do it for them.

Will speak again definitely my friend.

Final thought of the day regarding this :
The irony of requiring a "health" pass to eat in McDonalds.....
Dont that just beat all?

[4v6]

Originally Posted by urquattr085

Can I say what a fabulously reasoned, mature and interesting debate.

All done without anyone throwing their toys out of the (presumably classic) pram.

Whilst not wishing to contribute, I do have my own opinions and there are many points here I both agree and disagree with - as it should be with any good debate.

A great example of free speech and free thinking and a credit to this community

As it should be, theres absolutely no reason for anyone to get upset (unless theyre harbouring authoritarian motives) as seen eleswhere or to throw insults, that achieves nothing positive.
God dont i flipping go on..........

[Isimmo]

Originally Posted by urquattr085

Can I say what a fabulously reasoned, mature and interesting debate.

All done without anyone throwing their toys out of the (presumably classic) pram.

Whilst not wishing to contribute, I do have my own opinions and there are many points here I both agree and disagree with - as it should be with any good debate.

A great example of free speech and free thinking and a credit to this community

Completely concur…

When the thread started I did fear for the moderators worse …

Thank you gents.

[4v6]

Some worrying claims being made here regarding vaccine safety.

https://europerenaissance.files.word...ath-report.pdf

[SorenR]

Originally Posted by 4v6

Some worrying claims being made here regarding vaccine safety.

https://europerenaissance.files.word...ath-report.pdf

It would be more worrying if you were to believe any of it!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Zelenko
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/t...rus-drugs.html

https://www.quora.com/Who-is-David-S...tion-all-about