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Old 10-10-18, 08:48 AM   #31
4v6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steev View Post
In my personal opinion:

I remember a time before Europe, it was not nice. Most inner cities were crap. Regeneration was due to EU funding.

I remember a time before Europe, it was not nice. As a buyer, trying to buy anything from there was an absolute nightmare of paperwork. Something called the EU made that easier

I remember a time before Europe, it was not nice. As a seller trying to match your sales spec to EU requirements frequently meant you lost the deal. setting standards for products (oustide of headline grabbing bananas) was done by something called the EU

I question what the press has to say or gain from this, their coverage overall is negative, that sells papers, pays for yachts. Selling a positive story, nahhh! Not good! Drop the dead donkey, focus on the EU?

Brexiteers point to "Project Fear", no one points to their project, "Project Teletubby Land". Where we all have our little piece of green grass and can sit on it watching the world go by, cos everyone likes us!! they all line up and we swap jelly sweets in the land of World Trade. Explain to me which of Johnson, Gove, Mogg, Duncan Smith or others will be held accountable if it does not pan out. With the EU, you know what you can expect and can influence it. If we have failed in the past, then then that says more about us than the EU to be be fair.

Look at the main Brexit proponents. EVERY one of them has silver spoon stuffed up their ....., they absolutely demand our "respect", Billy Bunter Johnson, Game of Thrones Gove, Spooky Duncan Smith and of course the man who respects women for what they are, five children later, Mogg. And Farage! Such an English name, he can rest assured for the rest of his life innured from reality with his EU final salary pension, he didn't sell out did he?

Politically I am agnostic, but Cameron's love affair of refernda on complex issues such as Scotland and the EU did not place him high amongst the leaders of the last 100 years.

He effectively said "I can't decide, don't look at me, what do you think?" True 1939 spirit!! Not! More like trying sort out his own EU party politics

And the question he asked was the same as asking "Do you want to sell your house?"

Having got the response, the answer is that you'll get a quid for it. But hey! It's the will of the people, well at least the ENGLISH people, voting on restricting immigration, which we cant influence even if we do leave. So having agreed to sell the house for a quid, do we go ahead? Or do we have another vote? Or heaven forfend do we find a politician that says, "stop this crap, we are better in than out" Watch out for Jeremy Corben on that one!!

Taking back control? Who will have that Control? Gove, Mogg, Duncan Smith, Johnson. Seriously?

This is a civil war in all but name, with Cavaliers and Roundheads are all mixed up together

The honest thing to do is for Mogg and his "powerful" ERG to setup their own party.

There is no difference between ERG and Momentum, they are both meant to hijack our votes for the two big parties for their own ends. The honest thing to do is to seperate and fight on the issues they pontificate about.

One last thing, the EU referendum was advisory, not compulsory.

So what the the F*** are we doing?
Cant really agree with the last two sentences.

At no time prior to the vote was it ever stated the outcome was to be taken as advisory.
If it had been the case then thered have been no point in the whole exercise as those who still want us to be hogtied to that awful unaccountable body would have simply been able to ignore the will of the people.600 politicians saying no! to all those who want out of it.
You call that democracy? I call it tyranny.
Its also a method for those who want the status quo to remain to try to delegitimise the result simply because they didnt get what they wanted despite accepting the terms of the voting procedure and its outcome by participating in it knowing they could lose but being so sure of the slanted media support they thought theyd gamed it yet again.

As for what we're doing, we're enacting the wishes of the people who bothered to democratically vote on the direction they wanted the country to go in.
Its that simple.

If the vote had gone the other way should we have had another vote or considered it only "advisory"?
Be honest.
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Old 10-10-18, 01:41 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4v6 View Post
Cant really agree with the last two sentences.

At no time prior to the vote was it ever stated the outcome was to be taken as advisory.
If it had been the case then thered have been no point in the whole exercise as those who still want us to be hogtied to that awful unaccountable body would have simply been able to ignore the will of the people.600 politicians saying no! to all those who want out of it.
You call that democracy? I call it tyranny.
Its also a method for those who want the status quo to remain to try to delegitimise the result simply because they didnt get what they wanted despite accepting the terms of the voting procedure and its outcome by participating in it knowing they could lose but being so sure of the slanted media support they thought theyd gamed it yet again.

As for what we're doing, we're enacting the wishes of the people who bothered to democratically vote on the direction they wanted the country to go in.
Its that simple.

If the vote had gone the other way should we have had another vote or considered it only "advisory"?
Be honest.
Spot on
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Old 10-10-18, 05:02 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steev View Post
In my personal opinion
Great post full of your own thoughts rather than spreading some fake media nonsense.


Steev is correct, it was advisory.

The European Union Referendum Act 2015 (c. 36) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that made a legal provision for a non-binding referendum to be held in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and Gibraltar, on whether it should remain a member state of the European Union or leave it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...endum_Act_2015

But porcuophile cameron said in the House of Commons on 22 Feb 2016:

the referendum would be “a straight democratic decision… Having a second renegotiation followed by a second referendum is not on the ballot paper.” He went on to say that “If the British people vote to leave, there is only one way to bring that about, namely to trigger article 50 of the treaties and begin the process of exit, and the British people would rightly expect that to start straight away.”

which lead people to believe it is binding, but he resigned.... leaving us with the dancing queen, whose mantra brexit means brexit cemented the result.

There will not be another leave referendum, so why do people worry that there will?. Is there some divide and conquer, and smoke and mirrors happening?
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Old 12-10-18, 07:40 AM   #34
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It a nice theory but of course its entirely wrong the result wasnt advisory, the following wording comes from the official government leaflets given out at the time.

"The government will regard themselves as being bound by the decision of the referendum and wil proceed with serving an article 50 notice".

Still waiting for an answer on whether or not its believed we should have had another vote had the result gone the other way...... I may be waiting some time though....��
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Old 12-10-18, 07:39 PM   #35
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Ten years ago I went about my local boot sales like you do, and they had remained much as they had been these last 30 years. Boot sales are the places where those for whom money matters go. And the population attending ten years ago was much as you would find in any post war new town. Some black, some Asian, some others, but mostly white and British.

But a dramatic shift happened some time between 10 years ago and now. A sudden increase in people from Europe could be found in these places....actually the new were from the then poorer European countries. I hesitate to use words like flooded to describe this, , but let us say, an influx of cheaper labour came, who competed for houses, jobs, and school services. Why not...if I was a fit Romanian male who could earn 4 times my salary at home, would I not come here, and think nothing of the "lazy" locals.

But what of our own? What of those born here who might expect their nation state to protect their interests? What of the generation of working class young born and bred in this country now competing with the cheapest workers Romania (et al.) has to offer? Do we ask our youngsters to just man up? To put of their hopes of a house, a mortage, and a good living off for another 30 years because Tony Blair decided Romanians (et al.,) are entitled to work here and can live cheaper and work for less? Would my generation of baby boomers have agreed to that had they been asked when young?

And what of our distinct culture...? Does it not matter that our identity as a nation is lost in a sea of assimilation and Guardianista relativism?

No wonder the majority voted for Brexit despite a tirade of propaganda to the contrary. Look, cheap labour from Europe works in the interests of capital. It advances the interests of those that have money to spend on labour....cheap labour. It does not advantage the interests of the poor of this country. And these people have a right to expect that the nation state will work towards their interests. No wonder people voted for Brexit despite the BBC!

To reverse this situation, those with capital/wealth or unaffected by labour competition need to begin to listen to those who have only their labour to sell. For too long the reality of life on the breadline has been ignored by the comfortable. Those for whom Europe means little more than the cheap erection of another garden feature or the easy purchase of goods...

Until then those with wealth have a better understanding of all this, or they remove the vote from the poor, or they make the BBC more effective as a tool for state propaganda, please expect those ADVERSLEY affected by the international movement of labour to vote as they have.

I voted Brexit because I think those with only their labour to sell in this country should be given priority over those from other nations. I know this is tribal, I know it is ethnocentric, and it is also self interested. But it is no less than what the wealthy do when they send their kids to Eton. It is about looking after your own. In this instance the poor from our nation.
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Old 13-10-18, 07:53 AM   #36
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My primary reason for voting leave is that i believe the people of this country dont need and shouldnt have to ask permission from unelected unaccountable unremoveable officials in a foreign state to just live their lives how they see fit by making their own decisions..

Still on the subject of independence, i have a hard time trying to understand the snp and their constant squealing about wanting their independence.
Clearly the snp only want to be separated from england but want to sell their citizens to the eu for personal and political favour.
Hardly independence by any measure of the word.

Back to our own brexit situation though and id like to ask remainers why theyre so happy to trade away their rights to self determination in favour of being serfs to the eu elitists?
Makes no sense to me at all swapping out your freedom for the bars of a gilded cage.
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Old 13-10-18, 01:59 PM   #37
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Two things that bug me about the UK leaving the EU, the word Brexit, does my dinger,

and the country i live in voted to remain but like general elections of late we get the opposite of what we vote for but this is a whole other debate.

I think what gets most folk is the sheer lack of a plan for leaving, and the sheer lets tell the people what they want to hear (lies) that were thrown around during the build up to the referendum. IMO when (if?!?!) we leave i can see things getting bad before they get good, a lot will depend on the trade deals that there has been a sheer inability to sort so far
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Old 13-10-18, 03:31 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigchewie View Post
I think what gets most folk is the sheer lack of a plan for leaving......
If it were done before the vote?...….I think the result would've been different.

I think many English view the EU like what many Scots view London rule?...….. 4v6?

What if the difference for Scotland was living with a bullying big brother or staying with a concerned cousin?
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Old 22-10-18, 04:03 PM   #39
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I’ve seen this a few times now. Thought you might appreciate it!


LEAVER: I want an omelette.

REMAINER: Right. It’s just we haven’t got any eggs.

LEAVER: Yes, we have. There they are. [HE POINTS AT A CAKE]

REMAINER: They’re in the cake.

LEAVER: Yes, get them out of the cake, please.

REMAINER: But we voted in 1974 to put them into a cake.

LEAVER: Yes, but that cake has got icing on it. Nobody said there was going to be icing on it.

REMAINER: Icing is good.

LEAVER: And there are raisins in it. I don’t like raisins. Nobody mentioned raisins. I demand another vote.

DAVID CAMERON ENTERS.

DAVID CAMERON: OK.

DAVID CAMERON SCARPERS.

LEAVER: Right, where’s my omelette?

REMAINER: I told you, the eggs are in the cake.

LEAVER: Well, get them out.

EU: It’s our cake.

JEREMY CORBYN: Yes, get them out now.

REMAINER: I have absolutely no idea how to get them out. Don’t you know how to get them out?

LEAVER: Yes! You just get them out and then you make an omelette.

REMAINER: But how?! Didn’t you give this any thought?

LEAVER: Saboteur! You’re talking eggs down. We could make omelettes before the eggs went into the cake, so there’s no reason why we can’t make them now.

THERESA MAY: It’s OK, I can do it.

REMAINER: How?

THERESA MAY: There was a vote to remove the eggs from the cake, and so the eggs will be removed from the cake.

REMAINER: Yeah, but…

LEAVER: Hang on, if we take the eggs out of the cake, does that mean we don’t have any cake? I didn’t say I didn’t want the cake, just the bits I don’t like.

EU: It’s our cake.

REMAINER: But you can’t take the eggs out of the cake and then still have a cake.

LEAVER: You can. I saw the latest Bake Off and you can definitely make cakes without eggs in them. It’s just that they’re horrible.

REMAINER: Fine. Take the eggs out. See what happens.

LEAVER: It’s not my responsibility to take the eggs out. Get on with it.

REMAINER: Why should I have to come up with some long-winded incredibly difficult chemical process to extract eggs that have bonded at the molecular level to the cake, while somehow still having the cake?

LEAVER: You lost, get over it.

THERESA MAY: By the way, I’ve started the clock on this.

REMAINER: So I assume you have a plan?

THERESA MAY: Actually, back in a bit. Just having another election.

REMAINER: Jeremy, are you going to sort this out?

JEREMY CORBYN: Yes. No. Maybe.

EU: It’s our cake.

LEAVER: Where’s my omelette? I voted for an omelette.

REMAINER: This is ridiculous. This is never going to work. We should have another vote, or at least stop what we’re doing until we know how to get the eggs out of the cake while keeping the bits of the cake that we all like.

LEAVER/MAY/CORBYN: WE HAD A VOTE. STOP SABOTAGING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. EGGSIT MEANS EGGSIT.

REMAINER: Fine, I’m moving to France. The cakes are nicer there.

LEAVER: You can’t. We’ve taken your freedom of movement.
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Old 22-10-18, 04:19 PM   #40
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Thank you, Delia Smith.
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