Window winder regulators for '81 Coupe GT

Flying Frank · 22-05-21, 03:14 PM

Yes, I know I might as well have put "looking for hens teeth" in the wanted title.

However, if you don't explore every avenue who knows ?

Removed the left hand electric motor from my "new" car as the window was totally U/S . Application of direct current to the motor produces nothing and I can't make up my mind if the electric motor is seized or if the window wire/pulleys mechanism is jammed.
Any advice on the latter would be appreciated.

Would happily fit a manual set up if anyone might have a set of those for sale , far less trouble in the long run for sure.

Sad to say , but need both sides please.

Isimmo · 22-05-21, 03:55 PM

Does it click when voltage put to it? Also, window drive gearbox can be disconnected from the motor ISTR.

BackintheFold · 22-05-21, 04:54 PM

Yeah! Convert to Manual!!
Then sell me your motors and cables...

Kidding (ish)
Well worth taking motor and cable area apart. Degrease, regrease, clean the contacts in the motor -inc commutators -and I would put money on it all working. Unless cables broken obviously, but you’d spot that easy enough.

But I would buy your spares after if you do convert to
Manual.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Flying Frank · 22-05-21, 07:23 PM

I took the unit into my shed and applied direct current via a battery and just got zilch apart from sparks off the battery. Checked power to the unit earlier and that was spot on with a very light click coming from the motor.

One of the cables has the plastic sleeve cover separated from the spring that goes into the motor.

I opened up the cover of the motor and everything was well greased inside , but chickened out of going any further.

The whole thing seems locked solid , but not sure where its locked ; in the motor, or the mechanism. I'm not confident with stripping electrical stuff down to be honest .

I'll try and put up a picture later when I'm at my main computer.

4v6 · 22-05-21, 08:27 PM

Do an amperage test with an ammeter on your digital voltmeter with it inline and see how much current it pulls, itll give you an idea of whether or not its stuck and pulling more current than it should be.

BackintheFold · 22-05-21, 08:51 PM

If you undo the two screws at the end of the unit, you can wiggle the motor apart enough to get at the commutators and clean with cotton buds dipped in carb cleaner.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Flying Frank · 22-05-21, 09:41 PM

Ok Guys , you are blinding me with your technical answers, my engineering skills finished with a hammer.

However, here are a couple of pictures of the unit out of the car and you can see that one of the cables is not seating in the motor correctly and whilst I can push the white plastic part back towards the motor, the very strong spring prevents it staying in place. God knows how it is fitted .

I have opened the face of the motor where the wires are coiled around a plastic wheel with a rim of teeth which obviously is driven by the motor, but that is locked solid. I resisted taking it out of the motor for fear of not being able to get it back in .

The rest of the motor has two sides held in by screws, but when they were removed the sides seemed to still be attached and short of levering it open , again I chickened out for fear of doing more harm than good.

20210522_143902 by Frank Brejcha, on Flickr

20210522_134629 by Frank Brejcha, on Flickr

The whole unit is free of any corrosion and looks in great condition ....except it doesn't work!

Hanuman · 23-05-21, 01:50 AM

I’ve not seen one of these early motors before. Later motors were like a barrel, with two retaining screws, this looks like a large face plate.

With the later style units, you could loosen the screws. Then, when you hold the case while applying battery directly, could feel a twitch in the case if the motor is trying to run. It’s a very rough and ready way to tell. Gash!

A lack of use, and simple moisture ingress was sufficient to stop things working in my case. I’ve done it a couple of times, taking it all apart, cleaning, getting the motor running with no load, and then carefully putting back together.

However.
There’s mainly two aspects to all of this.

1. The motor. Is that dead? (sparks would suggest not, at least, not entirely). Or jammed?- could be corrosion, seized from lack of use, or

2. The gearbox and drive. The cables can bind up, get damaged. If you look at the cable runs. One of those is clearly not quite right (hand scribbled yellow ring) It could be that a combination of lack of use, and the cables binding up, effectively going ‘over-centre’ or just a bit too far. I can’t think of a Better description at this time of night.

I’ll post a pic shortly of what I suspect may be an issue, with hand scribbled references

4v6 · 23-05-21, 06:17 AM

You can take out the screws on that side plate with the long rectangular pressing as the motors behind it.
I did have a spare one of those but I fear it may have gone the way of the tatman, I did look inside it so I know whats in there.
You can access the commutator and brushes by doing so.
You can also turn the armature by hand and see if it is jammed.

Youll never turn the motor using the big nylon gear on the gearbox part though as its a gear driven by a worm gear but you can turn it using the motor and itll confirm the motor being free.seized and also the nylon driven gears freedom.

Get the screwdriver out!

Flying Frank · 23-05-21, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4v6

You can take out the screws on that side plate with the long rectangular pressing as the motors behind it.
I did have a spare one of those but I fear it may have gone the way of the tatman, I did look inside it so I know whats in there.
You can access the commutator and brushes by doing so.
You can also turn the armature by hand and see if it is jammed.

Youll never turn the motor using the big nylon gear on the gearbox part though as its a gear driven by a worm gear but you can turn it using the motor and itll confirm the motor being free.seized and also the nylon driven gears freedom.

Get the screwdriver out!

That's great gen and many thanks.

I am very tentative about opening things up as experienced too many times having things jump out and disappear leaving me safe in the knowledge that my attempted repair is now never going to happen as parts have gone awol.

Will give that another go today.....I did take the screws out of both sides, but the plates were reluctant to come off so decided against using any significant force.

Rain forecast today ( AGAIN ) so will spend my holy hour on my knees praying to the Audi God for some divine help, but your words are a great incentive so many thanks again.

22-05-21, 03:55 PM	#2
Isimmo Super Moderator Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sissix-by-the-sea Posts: 15,218	Does it click when voltage put to it? Also, window drive gearbox can be disconnected from the motor ISTR. __________________ 1985 WR quattro, 1985 20vT RallyRep, 1993 MTM ABY S2 Avant. 2010 S3 Sportback.

22-05-21, 04:54 PM	#3
BackintheFold Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Near an MB ur Quattro Posts: 1,190	Yeah! Convert to Manual!! Then sell me your motors and cables... Kidding (ish) Well worth taking motor and cable area apart. Degrease, regrease, clean the contacts in the motor -inc commutators -and I would put money on it all working. Unless cables broken obviously, but you’d spot that easy enough. But I would buy your spares after if you do convert to Manual. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ 2006 A3 (daily drive) 1987 MB ur

22-05-21, 07:23 PM	#4
Flying Frank 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Kernow, Gods own county !! Posts: 2,388	I took the unit into my shed and applied direct current via a battery and just got zilch apart from sparks off the battery. Checked power to the unit earlier and that was spot on with a very light click coming from the motor. One of the cables has the plastic sleeve cover separated from the spring that goes into the motor. I opened up the cover of the motor and everything was well greased inside , but chickened out of going any further. The whole thing seems locked solid , but not sure where its locked ; in the motor, or the mechanism. I'm not confident with stripping electrical stuff down to be honest . I'll try and put up a picture later when I'm at my main computer. Last edited by Flying Frank; 22-05-21 at 07:26 PM.

22-05-21, 08:51 PM	#6
BackintheFold Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Near an MB ur Quattro Posts: 1,190	If you undo the two screws at the end of the unit, you can wiggle the motor apart enough to get at the commutators and clean with cotton buds dipped in carb cleaner. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ 2006 A3 (daily drive) 1987 MB ur

23-05-21, 01:50 AM	#8
Hanuman Trickster Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Heckling from the cheap seats, Phnom Penh, KoW Posts: 7,016	Window winder regulators for '81 Coupe GT I’ve not seen one of these early motors before. Later motors were like a barrel, with two retaining screws, this looks like a large face plate. With the later style units, you could loosen the screws. Then, when you hold the case while applying battery directly, could feel a twitch in the case if the motor is trying to run. It’s a very rough and ready way to tell. Gash! A lack of use, and simple moisture ingress was sufficient to stop things working in my case. I’ve done it a couple of times, taking it all apart, cleaning, getting the motor running with no load, and then carefully putting back together. However. There’s mainly two aspects to all of this. 1. The motor. Is that dead? (sparks would suggest not, at least, not entirely). Or jammed?- could be corrosion, seized from lack of use, or 2. The gearbox and drive. The cables can bind up, get damaged. If you look at the cable runs. One of those is clearly not quite right (hand scribbled yellow ring) It could be that a combination of lack of use, and the cables binding up, effectively going ‘over-centre’ or just a bit too far. I can’t think of a Better description at this time of night. I’ll post a pic shortly of what I suspect may be an issue, with hand scribbled references __________________ I wish they would keep the damned Chinese away now that I can go home, so that I can enjoy Fish amok and a draught Angkor Last edited by Hanuman; 23-05-21 at 02:21 AM.

22-05-21, 08:27 PM	#5
4v6 Ex Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,565	Do an amperage test with an ammeter on your digital voltmeter with it inline and see how much current it pulls, itll give you an idea of whether or not its stuck and pulling more current than it should be.

22-05-21, 09:41 PM	#7
Flying Frank 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Kernow, Gods own county !! Posts: 2,388	Ok Guys , you are blinding me with your technical answers, my engineering skills finished with a hammer. However, here are a couple of pictures of the unit out of the car and you can see that one of the cables is not seating in the motor correctly and whilst I can push the white plastic part back towards the motor, the very strong spring prevents it staying in place. God knows how it is fitted . I have opened the face of the motor where the wires are coiled around a plastic wheel with a rim of teeth which obviously is driven by the motor, but that is locked solid. I resisted taking it out of the motor for fear of not being able to get it back in . The rest of the motor has two sides held in by screws, but when they were removed the sides seemed to still be attached and short of levering it open , again I chickened out for fear of doing more harm than good. 20210522_143902 by Frank Brejcha, on Flickr 20210522_134629 by Frank Brejcha, on Flickr The whole unit is free of any corrosion and looks in great condition ....except it doesn't work!

23-05-21, 06:17 AM	#9
4v6 Ex Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,565	You can take out the screws on that side plate with the long rectangular pressing as the motors behind it. I did have a spare one of those but I fear it may have gone the way of the tatman, I did look inside it so I know whats in there. You can access the commutator and brushes by doing so. You can also turn the armature by hand and see if it is jammed. Youll never turn the motor using the big nylon gear on the gearbox part though as its a gear driven by a worm gear but you can turn it using the motor and itll confirm the motor being free.seized and also the nylon driven gears freedom. Get the screwdriver out!