to quattro or not quattro...

Mellis46 · 15-01-15, 03:24 PM

Over the years I have enjoyed reading Tom Gent's webpages at www.audi9020v.com many times but it always leaves me wondering about my own experience of driving a B3 Audi 90.

As a relative newbie on here I am not sure if this topic has been visited before but I am interested to know other people thoughts on this. (I think I might know Kenny's opinion because he has commented on the site

)

So anyway, when reading the above website, the text seems to question the advantage of the quattro system in the context of driveability between the sport versions of the 90 20v and 20v quattro. It mentions that the performance figures of the quattro equipped 20v might have been over/understated by Audi to make it appear that the quattro was quicker than the FWD, a theory bourne out in an acceleration test conducted by a VW/Audi magazine which found the FWD to be significantly quicker to 60mph. It reaches the conclusion that the FWD 20v 90 may also be better to drive improved agility through carrying less weight.

Now, I love my Audi and along with that I'm no speed demon, (in fact compared to others it has been said I drive a bit like Miss Daisy) and I can only speak from my own personal experience having owned both a FWD and quattro version of a B3 saloon with a 10v 2.2 KV engine fitted, but I personally prefer the quattro. With its torque sensing differential and independent rear suspension, in 10v guise its no rocket ship but it seems more planted, has excellent grip especially in wet or unsavoury weather and really inspires confidence I think, indeed poking the quattro through a series of bends is a real joy. Point to point I would go as far as to say that my 10v 90q feels a lot quicker than the 2.2E, but maybe a few ponies had fled the stable in that old bus

Tyre wear I have found is pretty much the same on both cars, and the quattro really doesnt want to spin its wheels like the FWD used to which suggests to me the excess power is being distributed to all the wheels usefully instead!

BUT to return to the matter at hand, If the performance figures were fudged by Audis marketing team, and we are to accept that the quattro system just weighs too much and saps performance on the lower output cars, does that mean in reality there is no advantage unless you have a much more powerful engine like in the ur or a 20vt S2 etc? Have we just been taken in by the romanticsm of a ur at full chat on a rally stage and convinced ourselves of the supposed advantages of improved grip and traction? Are we just the victims of clever marketing if we have quattro on low(er) output cars?! I hope not but what do you guys think?!

John. · 15-01-15, 03:52 PM

It makes sense that the lighter car with the same engine will be quicker off the mark.........if it can get the power down without wheel-spin? So I would say that in all but snowy conditions the 2 wheel drive car will be quicker.
Handling wise the independent rear will surely make for a better handling car than that of the solid beam on the front wheel drive car........but then the FWD car is carrying less weight?
My first coupe was a B4 16v and while only front wheel drive it drove well in snow, which got me thinking if this is just 2 wheels driving.....wonder what the quattro's like!!?

Regardless of power and handling, as you suggest Mr.Mellis it has a lot to do with who's behind the wheel.

Swings and roundabouts as they say.

Hanuman · 15-01-15, 04:10 PM

4wd/quattro makes perfect sense to me.
I've done a fair bit of driving around the world, and my preference is 4wd. However, Winters in Canada, I've only ever had a FWD with winter tyres, and only got caught out once, but would certainly have preferred the extra driven axle on a fair number of occasions.

It just so happens that the cars I like are also 4wd, so it takes away some of the choice somewhat. Its about 30yrs since 0-60numbers were quite so important.

Consider this, though. My V8, with its massive auto box, in 240/250 horse form is surprisingly agile, and even survived very muddy fields, where others were being assisted by the police in their landrover.

ChrisG · 15-01-15, 05:25 PM

It's a long time ago for the various road tests but the gearing between the 90 20v Sport and the Quattro version was different, lower in the Quattro ( with the possibility of a second gear change ( into 3rd) for the Quattro ??)
Personally I'd be happy with a FWD Sport

and although the Real MSH's comments about snow are very relevant, these days winter tyres are more widely available/used I wouldn't be using 'mine' in the snow !!

Kenquattro · 15-01-15, 05:44 PM

Having owned both 10V (KV) 2WD and quattro 90s, and 20V (7A) 2WD and quattro 90s, I agree with Mark. The quattro has a much better ride due to the different rear suspension set up, obviously more traction, but the gearing is better on the 2WD versions, and they do feel more lively. My 90 Sport 20V 2WD felt considerably quicker than my two quattro versions of the same car.I prefer the quattro version over the 2WD.
I think out of all the 90s I have had, the one that puts the biggest smile on my face has been the 10V quattro. What it lacks in pace, is more than made up by the glorious noise it makes. The 20V just doesn't sound as nice. Mark has my favourite 90 spec of all, a black 90 quattro Sport, but 10V.

Coxy · 15-01-15, 05:59 PM

I'll compare my experience based on owning a Series 3 coupe quattro with the 7a and engine, and series 3 90 sport 20v non quattro, again with the same 7a engine and the 90 sport just seems a lot quicker off the mark. You really need to keep the revs up to get the best out of the 20v lump but over 4000rpm and that engine is just pure music!
So, non quattro all day long if you want that extra power!

Kenquattro · 15-01-15, 06:08 PM

When I had a non quattro 90, I always wished I had the quattro version. I can't say that when I have had the quattro version , I have ever wished I had the 2WD version instead.
I love the way the quattro version has the 'quattro' in the rear heated window elements, but a minus point is that the boot is even smaller. The B3 80/90 boot is pretty much one of it's worst aspects.
Agree with Coxy regarding the good old surge in the 20V past 4k revs. They do go well.

Mellis46 · 15-01-15, 06:13 PM

Have to agree re the boot Ken. If the 90q has a downside, its the boot. But the quattro is better in other ways so if the Mrs has to pack more sensibly...! Something Audi obviously adressed with the B4...!

quattrostyle · 15-01-15, 07:16 PM

What wrong with the boot? Surely the misses does the groceries shopping and not in the Audi?

Mellis46 · 15-01-15, 07:32 PM

true, thats what her peugeots for...! The Audi definitely doesn't go anywhere near the door dinging mecca that is Tesco!

15-01-15, 04:10 PM	#3
Hanuman Trickster Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Heckling from the cheap seats, Phnom Penh, KoW Posts: 7,020	4wd/quattro makes perfect sense to me. I've done a fair bit of driving around the world, and my preference is 4wd. However, Winters in Canada, I've only ever had a FWD with winter tyres, and only got caught out once, but would certainly have preferred the extra driven axle on a fair number of occasions. It just so happens that the cars I like are also 4wd, so it takes away some of the choice somewhat. Its about 30yrs since 0-60numbers were quite so important. Consider this, though. My V8, with its massive auto box, in 240/250 horse form is surprisingly agile, and even survived very muddy fields, where others were being assisted by the police in their landrover. __________________ I wish they would keep the damned Chinese away now that I can go home, so that I can enjoy Fish amok and a draught Angkor

15-01-15, 05:25 PM	#4
ChrisG Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bracknell, Berks. Posts: 1,465	It's a long time ago for the various road tests but the gearing between the 90 20v Sport and the Quattro version was different, lower in the Quattro ( with the possibility of a second gear change ( into 3rd) for the Quattro ??) Personally I'd be happy with a FWD Sport and although the Real MSH's comments about snow are very relevant, these days winter tyres are more widely available/used I wouldn't be using 'mine' in the snow !! Last edited by ChrisG; 15-01-15 at 05:28 PM.

15-01-15, 03:52 PM	#2
John. 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Scottish Borders. Posts: 7,529	It makes sense that the lighter car with the same engine will be quicker off the mark.........if it can get the power down without wheel-spin? So I would say that in all but snowy conditions the 2 wheel drive car will be quicker. Handling wise the independent rear will surely make for a better handling car than that of the solid beam on the front wheel drive car........but then the FWD car is carrying less weight? My first coupe was a B4 16v and while only front wheel drive it drove well in snow, which got me thinking if this is just 2 wheels driving.....wonder what the quattro's like!!? Regardless of power and handling, as you suggest Mr.Mellis it has a lot to do with who's behind the wheel. Swings and roundabouts as they say.

15-01-15, 05:44 PM	#5
Kenquattro 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 6,267	Having owned both 10V (KV) 2WD and quattro 90s, and 20V (7A) 2WD and quattro 90s, I agree with Mark. The quattro has a much better ride due to the different rear suspension set up, obviously more traction, but the gearing is better on the 2WD versions, and they do feel more lively. My 90 Sport 20V 2WD felt considerably quicker than my two quattro versions of the same car.I prefer the quattro version over the 2WD. I think out of all the 90s I have had, the one that puts the biggest smile on my face has been the 10V quattro. What it lacks in pace, is more than made up by the glorious noise it makes. The 20V just doesn't sound as nice. Mark has my favourite 90 spec of all, a black 90 quattro Sport, but 10V.

15-01-15, 05:59 PM	#6
Coxy 4 Ring Mafia Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: on the side of a hill in Shropshire! Posts: 28,215	I'll compare my experience based on owning a Series 3 coupe quattro with the 7a and engine, and series 3 90 sport 20v non quattro, again with the same 7a engine and the 90 sport just seems a lot quicker off the mark. You really need to keep the revs up to get the best out of the 20v lump but over 4000rpm and that engine is just pure music! So, non quattro all day long if you want that extra power!

15-01-15, 06:08 PM	#7
Kenquattro 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 6,267	When I had a non quattro 90, I always wished I had the quattro version. I can't say that when I have had the quattro version , I have ever wished I had the 2WD version instead. I love the way the quattro version has the 'quattro' in the rear heated window elements, but a minus point is that the boot is even smaller. The B3 80/90 boot is pretty much one of it's worst aspects. Agree with Coxy regarding the good old surge in the 20V past 4k revs. They do go well.

15-01-15, 06:13 PM	#8
Mellis46 Aero Advocate Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Lancashire Posts: 1,448	Have to agree re the boot Ken. If the 90q has a downside, its the boot. But the quattro is better in other ways so if the Mrs has to pack more sensibly...! Something Audi obviously adressed with the B4...!

15-01-15, 07:16 PM	#9
quattrostyle 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,188	What wrong with the boot? Surely the misses does the groceries shopping and not in the Audi?

15-01-15, 07:32 PM	#10
Mellis46 Aero Advocate Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Lancashire Posts: 1,448	true, thats what her peugeots for...! The Audi definitely doesn't go anywhere near the door dinging mecca that is Tesco!