swapping a speedo/odometer - the law?

missfire · 11-04-11, 08:34 PM

hi,

does anyone know what the 'law' is if i had to swap the speedo/odometer for another unit..? as regards to...m.o.t. time for example..? when they say....''excuse me sir but...WTF..!?!??''

my 100 turbo thinks its doing 0 mph all the time....not good...

i have a 112K unit that i could put in, the one that does not work has 134K on it and i have tried to fix it, just can't spend any more time on it, so swapping the whole instrument cluster is now by far the easiest option. i have too many other things on the car that i want to be getting on with to waste any more time breathing solder on the dining room table.

is there a dvla form to fill in or anything like that..??

thanks

Isimmo · 11-04-11, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missfire

hi,

does anyone know what the 'law' is if i had to swap the speedo/odometer for another unit..? as regards to...m.o.t. time for example..? when they say....''excuse me sir but...WTF..!?!??''

my 100 turbo thinks its doing 0 mph all the time....not good...

i have a 112K unit that i could put in, the one that does not work has 134K on it and i have tried to fix it, just can't spend any more time on it, so swapping the whole instrument cluster is now by far the easiest option. i have too many other things on the car that i want to be getting on with to waste any more time breathing solder on the dining room table.

is there a dvla form to fill in or anything like that..??

thanks

No, just swap it, the odometer's a guide, if you'd done 500 miles of wheelspin it's not 'mileage' is it? All I would suggest is that you (from an honesty, moral responsibility, point of view) is log it within the service record and should you ever sell the car, present such information honestly.

stuartmmcfc · 11-04-11, 08:48 PM

Out of interest I've just had a little look on the web about this. As far as I can see its not an MOT problem (thats not a legal requirement anyway).
However if you were to try and sell it without mentioning it then you could be in a lot of trouble if they found out- but only if you were being dishonest.
Keep the old clocks, be up front and as far as I can tell there' s no problem.
And no offence it's not like you're doing it to a £100k motor, people expect things to wear out and be replaced with used bits on an old car.
Plenty of people seem to have done it with no hassle at all from mot garages etc.

(lets be honest. most of the garages which have mot'd my lancia think its in miles, its only the specialists who know its in km, so my mots go up and down and up again

)

Hanuman · 11-04-11, 08:50 PM

I understood it was irrelevant,

http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_670a.htm

SteveT63 · 11-04-11, 09:03 PM

Totally agree with Ian and the rest if the chaps. If you were to make a financial gain when selling the car by misrepresenting the mileage and therefore making a few extra quid, then Trading Standards would probably want a word if the new owner felt hard done by. The test is simple. What are considered the actions of an honest person?
To keep the old unit and mention it's replacement if you move the car on is sufficient IMO to support your integrity

missfire · 11-04-11, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuartmmcfc

And no offence it's not like you're doing it to a £100k motor,

welllll excuse me...!!!!

it bloody might be one day!!...

(

)

thanks folks! will take a pic of the two side by side and put it in 'the book'. never going to sell it anyway, unless anyone has a spare 100K lying around..

i only need it for the likes of oil changes anyway, i doooooooo not like being in 30mph zones with no idea of my speed so i'm doing 20 mph everywhere..

I drove down from ayrshire when it broke and artics were overtaking me on the A road...

(was i doing 45mph..?? 50mph..?? who knows..

)

SorenR · 11-04-11, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missfire

i doooooooo not like being in 30mph zones with no idea of my speed so i'm doing 20 mph everywhere..

I drove down from ayrshire when it broke and artics were overtaking me on the A road...

(was i doing 45mph..?? 50mph..?? who knows..

)

My brother-in-law had a similar problem (digifiz kaputt) with his G60 ... A GPS navigation thingy comes in handy in a situation like this ;-)

TheTwelveQuidKid · 12-04-11, 01:05 AM

If a motor trader sells a car that's had the mileage reduced, it can be treated as applying a false trade description, pursuant to the Trade Descriptions Act 1968. There was a test case back in the mid 1980s where a car dealer had clocked the cars himself, and then put a disclaimer sticker over the mileage, which said the accuracy of the mileage recorded cannot be guaranteed. On appeal it was held that because he had clocked the cars himself, he could not rely on the disclaimer, and he was guilty of the offences. He got locked up for it as well if I remember rightly.

http://www.wigan.gov.uk/Services/Bus...raderguide.htm

For private individuals it's somewhat different. If a private individual was to alter the mileage of their own car, either by winding back the existing speedo, or fitting another one showing a lower mileage, then it depends on what happens next. If you did it and sold it on, stating the mileage was genuine, then it could be said that the mileage was one of the terms of the contract of sale. If the buyer found out, you could be sued for breach of contract. Or prosecuted for fraud.

If I'm selling a car, it depends on what I know about it. For example, that yellow fiesta I've just finished restoring has 45,000 miles on the clock. It's one of those clocks that only goes up to 99,999 before going back to 00,000. I've had mk2 fiestas in the past that were on their second time round. But the yellow one has service history which suggests the mileage is genuine, plus I've looked on the MOT website and the mileage checks out on there too.

I've had cars over the years that I had no way of knowing whether the mileage was genuine or not. So I've just told potential buyers exactly that. I mean, unless you've had the car from new, how do you really know if the mileage is genuine or not. I had a jag a couple of years ago with quite a low mileage on the clock. In the service history folder there was a letter from a car dealer in London stating that it had had a clock change at a certain mileage, (due to digital dash fault on early XJ40s). I just added the original mileage to what was on the current clock, and explained this when I advertised the car.

For private sales, to a large extent the phrase Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware) does still apply, except if you're selling a car and don't want grief, don't take the piss and tell blatant lies. If the speedo cable snapped and you didn't replace it for a couple of months, no big deal in the scheme of things. But if you fiddled the speedo and 'lost' 50,000 miles between MOTs, and didn't tell the buyer or potential buyer, you'd be on thin ice if they found out.

11-04-11, 08:48 PM	#3
stuartmmcfc 4 ring whore! Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3,243	Out of interest I've just had a little look on the web about this. As far as I can see its not an MOT problem (thats not a legal requirement anyway). However if you were to try and sell it without mentioning it then you could be in a lot of trouble if they found out- but only if you were being dishonest. Keep the old clocks, be up front and as far as I can tell there' s no problem. And no offence it's not like you're doing it to a £100k motor, people expect things to wear out and be replaced with used bits on an old car. Plenty of people seem to have done it with no hassle at all from mot garages etc. (lets be honest. most of the garages which have mot'd my lancia think its in miles, its only the specialists who know its in km, so my mots go up and down and up again)

11-04-11, 08:50 PM	#4
Hanuman Trickster Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Heckling from the cheap seats, Phnom Penh, KoW Posts: 7,021	I understood it was irrelevant, http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_670a.htm __________________ I wish they would keep the damned Chinese away now that I can go home, so that I can enjoy Fish amok and a draught Angkor

11-04-11, 09:03 PM	#5
SteveT63 Senior Member Classic Audi Club Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,045	Totally agree with Ian and the rest if the chaps. If you were to make a financial gain when selling the car by misrepresenting the mileage and therefore making a few extra quid, then Trading Standards would probably want a word if the new owner felt hard done by. The test is simple. What are considered the actions of an honest person? To keep the old unit and mention it's replacement if you move the car on is sufficient IMO to support your integrity __________________ Peace...........through superior acceleration! T85 1985 90quattro I5 20vT T81 1983 80 Sport Red T81 1983 80 Sport Silver

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12-04-11, 01:05 AM	#8
TheTwelveQuidKid Grown up member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 422	If a motor trader sells a car that's had the mileage reduced, it can be treated as applying a false trade description, pursuant to the Trade Descriptions Act 1968. There was a test case back in the mid 1980s where a car dealer had clocked the cars himself, and then put a disclaimer sticker over the mileage, which said the accuracy of the mileage recorded cannot be guaranteed. On appeal it was held that because he had clocked the cars himself, he could not rely on the disclaimer, and he was guilty of the offences. He got locked up for it as well if I remember rightly. http://www.wigan.gov.uk/Services/Bus...raderguide.htm For private individuals it's somewhat different. If a private individual was to alter the mileage of their own car, either by winding back the existing speedo, or fitting another one showing a lower mileage, then it depends on what happens next. If you did it and sold it on, stating the mileage was genuine, then it could be said that the mileage was one of the terms of the contract of sale. If the buyer found out, you could be sued for breach of contract. Or prosecuted for fraud. If I'm selling a car, it depends on what I know about it. For example, that yellow fiesta I've just finished restoring has 45,000 miles on the clock. It's one of those clocks that only goes up to 99,999 before going back to 00,000. I've had mk2 fiestas in the past that were on their second time round. But the yellow one has service history which suggests the mileage is genuine, plus I've looked on the MOT website and the mileage checks out on there too. I've had cars over the years that I had no way of knowing whether the mileage was genuine or not. So I've just told potential buyers exactly that. I mean, unless you've had the car from new, how do you really know if the mileage is genuine or not. I had a jag a couple of years ago with quite a low mileage on the clock. In the service history folder there was a letter from a car dealer in London stating that it had had a clock change at a certain mileage, (due to digital dash fault on early XJ40s). I just added the original mileage to what was on the current clock, and explained this when I advertised the car. For private sales, to a large extent the phrase Caveat Emptor (let the buyer beware) does still apply, except if you're selling a car and don't want grief, don't take the piss and tell blatant lies. If the speedo cable snapped and you didn't replace it for a couple of months, no big deal in the scheme of things. But if you fiddled the speedo and 'lost' 50,000 miles between MOTs, and didn't tell the buyer or potential buyer, you'd be on thin ice if they found out.