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Davids 21-02-17 06:57 PM

Coupe carpet removal
 
There was me thinking I had sorted it, I had got the dash out, heater out, new foams on my flaps, all back in ok and all working, then I notice the shallow and deep end of a swimming pool in the car on both sides of the foot wells.

The car is only a few months old and I haven't driven it yet as there were a few jobs to do, heater and thermostat being two of them.

I have all of the old rotten under felt on and dried it out best I can but does any one know how to get the carpet out from under the last bit of heater duct etc under the dash area.

the centre console, seats and interior is completely stripped again but for the love of me I cant see how to get the carpet out from under the last bit of heater duct area.

Its a 1991 20V 2.3 Coupe

Please don't tell me its dash and heater out again :cryin::cryin::wall::wall::cryin:

Thanks for any help gents.

David

fourringsrus 21-02-17 07:52 PM

I took a stanley knife to it as close to the centre line as possible.
I discovered after removing the dash etc to do the matrix at a later date that the carpet has a slot roughly under the heater box if my memory serves correctly

Jake Blight 21-02-17 08:05 PM

Stanley is your friend...

The carpet and under felt in my b2 was so damp and rotten after 2 years of water ingress it just disinterested. Still haven't got round to fitting the replacement yet :shake:

Davids 21-02-17 08:41 PM

Thanks chaps, I thought that might be the answer, but its always worth checking as you never know, there may have been a trick or 2.

I suppose I am out with the hose pipe tomorrow and lock in looking for the poxy leak then.

Cheers

David

sinbin5t 21-02-17 08:47 PM

Coupe's are buggers for developing leaks when you mess with them, check all the grommets etc are still in place and intact.

Hope you get it sorted quickly :tup:

mikes2 21-02-17 09:09 PM

I used a piece of laminated paper to slide between the carpet and the bottom of the heater ducts. Carpet just pulled backwards

Worked quite well and it also helped when putting it back in.

Does your car have a sunroof ?

Jake Blight 21-02-17 09:14 PM

Mine was blocked sunroof drain holes combined with the last owner loosing the sunroof at speed. The roof was retrieved and silicone into the gap when he got home. Then alas the car was parked and left never to be driven again. The ensuing time period rotted the screen pillars and the water really took its toll.

However two years later it's back to rude health (although I had to pay private health care costs to get the body back.)

Hope you find the leak... good luck.

Davids 21-02-17 10:33 PM

Thanks again gents, no sun roof so I guess grommets and such.

Great tip about the laminated paper.

Hopefully tomorrow is a dry day so I can get to work on it.

Cheers

David

vorsprung durch technik 21-02-17 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikes2 (Post 422409)
I used a piece of laminated paper to slide between the carpet and the bottom of the heater ducts. Carpet just pulled backwards

Worked quite well and it also helped when putting it back in.

That's the approach to take! :tup:

sinbin5t 22-02-17 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davids (Post 422425)
Thanks again gents, no sun roof so I guess grommets and such.

Great tip about the laminated paper.

Hopefully tomorrow is a dry day so I can get to work on it.

Cheers

David


Just as an afterthought, one of mine had blocked drain holes in the door bottoms, they were full in the bottom and trickled water from behind the door cards, more than you would expect :yikes: :crazy:

Davids 22-02-17 08:51 PM

[quote=mikes2;422409]I used a piece of laminated paper to slide between the carpet and the bottom of the heater ducts. Carpet just pulled backwards

Worked quite well and it also helped when putting it back in.

Massive big thanks for this tip, worked a treat, once I had broken the left footrest pad thur the carpet trying to remove it, bu&&er, something else to find and buy.


So found the leaks, the 2 finishers on each of the doors at the rear are missing, where the door card ends these must close a hole between the door top, window and card, if you get what I mean. I can se the water running down the seal and then creeping inside to run into the car.

The other one was a pig of a job. The panel that the fuse box sits on, and the bonnet cable passes thru a rubber grommet, well it looked like squinting thru a mass of wire that there was a leak from the earthing bolt on the foot well panel up by the up by this fuse box panel. Difficult to explain. On a close squint up side down with the seat mounting digging in my back, it looked like water seeping thru the actual metal right next to this earth bolt, anyways, after another hour of water in my hair and crap in my eyes it turns out the panel that the fuse box sits on, where the return flange returns and is spot welded to the side of the foot well panel, is leaking thru this seam. The sealant inside the engine bay by the drain hole looked fine, but that is the only place I can think it is getting thru. Took ages to find, who on earth would have thought water could get thru this flange, weld, sealant, bar steward :wall::wall::wall::wall:.

So dried the old sealer and area next to the fuse box and bonnet pull grommet and applied copious quantities of sickaflex PU sealant.

Will give it to Saturday to really go off and get the watering can out again.

Thanks again for all the help and tips lads, and a gesture of thanks more 70's and 80's killer soul club and dance tracks will be posted for the dance floor heroes out there

David

sinbin5t 22-02-17 08:55 PM

Sickaflex, yep great sealant that !
Well done David, hope you are sorted at the weekend

:tup::tup::tup:

Davids 24-02-17 07:35 AM

Well that ended in tears, the leak on the drivers side I thought the application of PU sealant did the trick, no such luck, big puddle of water on the drivers side floor and the foot well panel up by the underside of the fuse box wet thru.:wall::wall::wall::wall:

No have no idea how water is getting into the seam or flange. I was going to take the wing off and have a look but the foot well side is also the A post box section where the hinge bolts into so not sure if that will help. I am wondering if it could be a windscreen leak and it is getting down into the seam ? no idea.

Any vague answers, ridiculous ideas and guesses, pointless speculation and time wasting ramblings and procrastination more than welcome.

David

mikes2 24-02-17 08:24 AM

Is the bonnet cable grommet ok ?

Davids 24-02-17 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikes2 (Post 422773)
Is the bonnet cable grommet ok ?

Yep that's good, in fact we tipped water down the drain hole in that area and no leaks, then we tipped water all around the fuse box and bonnet cable grommet while I was upside down in the car, no water at all. It just seems to get in when water runs from the roof down into that area around the screen pillar, A post hinge area.

I have found a sectional diagram of the area and will post it in a minute to help try and explain before it drives me to setting fire to it, but then it wont burn because its wet because it leaks.

Cheers

Davids 24-02-17 09:45 AM

I have attached a breakdown showing the area that is leaking, I hope its clear enough and explains the area. The fuse scuttle panel is welded to the inner foot well panel, hopefully indicated on the drawing clearly.

The scuttle panel is the norm spot weld flange, cant be seen here, to the side foot well panel, well it is dripping from under this spot welded flange directly to the foot well., the only way I could show it is by the blue arrows indicating the drips.

If anyone has had experience of this area leaking and stopped it I would be as chuffed to bits to hear about it.

Thanks gents

http://i1236.photobucket.com/albums/...pszre2ds49.jpg

fourringsrus 24-02-17 05:45 PM

On one of my previous 95 coupes, I found the wet was caused by ingress via the heater ducts.
The water was entering from the lower left side of the windscreen because the plastic cover which sits along the bottom and along the wiper assembly area, was distorted ( badly fitted in the past ) and causing lift at the rubber seal of the screen at the bottom.
This then allowed the water to travel into the heater fan motor box via the cabin filter, which was soaked, and then once through the heater motor chamber, the water was travelling along through the vent ducting and filling the rear footwells where they exited.
Though this was easily rectified by applying heat to the plastic trim panels until a decent fit was achieved, and then a bit of cleaning and drying etc, it was a bit of luck rather than judgement that I discovered the issue.
I am not sure if this could allow water to travel into the front of the car via ducting but it may be worth a look.
Good luck

Stuart

steve briance 24-02-17 07:11 PM

My coupe has been bone dry this winter after the following two fixes - sunroof you don't have and the most unlikely leak which was in the exact area you have bother....

The seam sealer applied in the factory had cracked and water was getting in through the seams NEXT TO AND AROUND the fuse box. Application of new sealant on top and all is well!

sinbin5t 24-02-17 07:29 PM

There is another thing that gets done to these cars sometimes, the doors are heavy and can drop, hinges wear etc, and a bodge it fix used to be a trolley jack and a piece of wood under the door, then it was jacked up repeatedly untill in line again, that must cause damage and possibly leaks.

Davids 24-02-17 10:04 PM

Thanks for more tips,

Stuart
The heater is fine, I have just had the dash and heater out, the foam had gone on my flaps so nothing was getting hot inside. New foam on the heater flaps and the cockpit is toastie. There was no sign of water ingress, not only that but the leak is above the side vent line, I can actually see it running from behind the spot welded flange.

Steve,
Remasticed that area Wednesday with pu sealant, Sikaflex, nothing is better than this stuff, afraid water still dripping from the flange inside. I will lift the fuse box I think tomorrow and have a look, I have some body caulking so will try that, not sure how difficult it is to lift the fuse box, suppose will find out tomorrow.

Hadn't thought about the door hinge, there is wear on the bottom one, but when you lift the door on to the latch the door lines up perfectly when closed and still leaks.

Ah well, looks like I am on my back again tomorrow.

Ciao

David

steve briance 25-02-17 07:24 AM

That's a pain if you have recovered all of the seams and it still leaks. Have a really good clean up and make sure that there are no stress cracks in the metal away from the seams you've resealed. I've seen pictures somewhere online posted by someone who found cracks in his scuttle on his s2.

Can you say for sure that the water you see inside is coming through that flange / joint? I only say this as during my adventures in coupe waterproofing, it was often the case that the water in an area had run or dribbled along from somewhere else. It's surprising how water can travel horizontally. Maybe get the area completely dry inside and out and get in position inside while someone else waters the area. You might see it creeping.

billy_bunter 25-02-17 08:49 AM

Following on from Steves post above. Do you always park the car in the same place? Perhaps water is coming from somewhere else. Water will always go to the lowest point.

Hope its the fusebox seal.

Last but not least good perserverance. :tup:

4v6 25-02-17 10:38 AM

The fuse box is sealed with the same butyl tape that the rear lights are done with, available from VW but costs a fair bit as you can only get it in long lengths. :tup:

Davids 25-02-17 08:41 PM

Just an up date, tried to get the fuse box out but it was stuck fast, all it started to do was to start bend the edges, so I gave that up, and in the process bu&&ered up the bonnet cable grommet, anyone got a spare one ?

So I thought I would pu seal it from the inside, nope the drip still found a pin prick, so I have given up on this. I can only think it is coming from behind the windscreen or somewhere and finding its way down.

Going to refit it all once it get the new door window front and end seals, then keep a small rag in that area. Once I get some spare time I will get the screen changed and have a better look then.

I have moved the car about a but but it still leaks, that's why I think it is running down from somewhere rather than along and capaliary action.

Hate being beaten by a dam car but there is no logical place I can see or treat for a drip to come out from behind a poxy spot welded flange.

And to cap it all off did you see the cr@p performance Reading gave on TV, a chance to perform, phaaaaaa.

Cheers

David

sinbin5t 25-02-17 08:54 PM

You would be surprised how much water a pin prick can let in :yikes:
The seals that are missing on the door, are they the inner or outer ? inner's missing don't cause a leak but the outer's will, i bought all new inner's last year and still need to fit them :lol: i forgot to put them on when i fitted new door panels :o

Davids 25-02-17 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinbin5t (Post 423064)
You would be surprised how much water a pin prick can let in :yikes:
The seals that are missing on the door, are they the inner or outer ? inner's missing don't cause a leak but the outer's will, i bought all new inner's last year and still need to fit them :lol: i forgot to put them on when i fitted new door panels :o

Audi Heritage call them seals, they are the triangle type rubber finishers that fit on top of the door by the wondows, they are sort if sealing finishers.
I have eliminated these leaks from this area, and hopefully the new ones should cure it in these areas.

sinbin5t 25-02-17 09:16 PM

Seal elements, did you get them all ? 4 inner and 4 outer, they are not cheap for the size of them are they David.

Davids 25-02-17 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinbin5t (Post 423067)
Seal elements, did you get them all ? 4 inner and 4 outer, they are not cheap for the size of them are they David.

4 in and 4 out ? looking at the parts diagram it is 2 front and 2 back, 1 per door ?

sinbin5t 25-02-17 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davids (Post 423068)
4 in and 4 out ? looking at the parts diagram it is 2 front and 2 back, 1 per door ?


Maybe we have crossed wires here lol, do you mean the ends that the window slides into when up ?
Inner's :-

895867691 01C
895867692 01C
895867693 01C
895867694 01C

Those are the part numbers and i got them from Audi Tradition David
My outer's are fine. The inner's fit into the door cards with 3 tabs and into the long seal with 1 tab.

Davids 25-02-17 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinbin5t (Post 423073)
Maybe we have crossed wires here lol, do you mean the ends that the window slides into when up ?
Inner's :-

895867691 01C
895867692 01C
895867693 01C
895867694 01C

Those are the part numbers and i got them from Audi Tradition David
My outer's are fine. The inner's fit into the door cards with 3 tabs and into the long seal with 1 tab.

That's the ones, the rears are missing on mine and the front ones the rubber has broken up and perished. I was quoted approx. 310 each for the front and 25 ish for the rears each. Yes sorry Audi Tradition, not Heritage.

They look like single bits ? that's what is shown on the parts diagrams ?

sinbin5t 25-02-17 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davids (Post 423074)
That's the ones, the rears are missing on mine and the front ones the rubber has broken up and perished. I was quoted approx. 310 each for the front and 25 ish for the rears each. Yes sorry Audi Tradition, not Heritage.

They look like single bits ? that's what is shown on the parts diagrams ?

They are single bits, front and rear for each door :crazy:
It cost me 99.54 euros delivered for all four of them, the inner's seem to get more hammer than the outer's. Mine are in the same condition but no water leaks in because of them.
I think they are expensive for what they are, but i had to get them so that i can make it look right, i'm just a fussy sod :lol:
They look like they could be a bugger to fit as well :yikes: job for spring i think.

Davids 25-02-17 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinbin5t (Post 423077)
They are single bits, front and rear for each door :crazy:
It cost me 99.54 euros delivered for all four of them, the inner's seem to get more hammer than the outer's. Mine are in the same condition but no water leaks in because of them.
I think they are expensive for what they are, but i had to get them so that i can make it look right, i'm just a fussy sod :lol:
They look like they could be a bugger to fit as well :yikes: job for spring i think.

Sorry should have said 10 each fro the fronts, looks about the same price as Audi Reading pass on the carriage. Hope they are easy to fit as I need to do mine asap.

Haven't a clue how they fit, assume on the door cards ?

sinbin5t 25-02-17 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davids (Post 423078)
Sorry should have said 10 each fro the fronts, looks about the same price as Audi Reading pass on the carriage. Hope they are easy to fit as I need to do mine asap.

Haven't a clue how they fit, assume on the door cards ?


Yes onto the door cards, 3 tabs pull down into it and 1 goes into the horizontal element, you will see what i mean :lol: when you take the door cards off you will also see the outer's stay in place, they wrap round the inner's.

Unless i have been having nightmares again
:lol::lol::lol:

:tup:

Davids 25-02-17 10:35 PM

Many thanks

Got to pay for them on Monday, so I'm hoping a week which will give me time to get the carpet in and seats etc. I will just have to put towels in until these turn up.

sinbin5t 25-02-17 10:51 PM

I think mine arrived in 3 days David, i do hope you get these leak problems sorted, in fact i am sure you will, it is just painful going through the process.

:tup::tup::tup:

vorsprung durch technik 25-02-17 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinbin5t (Post 423085)
I think mine arrived in 3 days David, i do hope you get these leak problems sorted, in fact i am sure you will, it is just painful going through the process.

:tup::tup::tup:

I'll second what Bruce says here David. :tup:

Davids 25-02-17 11:48 PM

Cheers gents, will be good to finally drive it.
I have been banned from even mentioning I want to re-spray it, so will be please just to get a few miles on it.

Perhaps in the summer if the Memsaab goes away for a few weeks, :ihih::ihih::ihih:

vorsprung durch technik 25-02-17 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davids (Post 423090)
Cheers gents, will be good to finally drive it.
I have been banned from even mentioning I want to re-spray it, so will be please just to get a few miles on it.

Perhaps in the summer if the Memsaab goes away for a few weeks, :ihih::ihih::ihih:

:lol::lol::lol:

Go for it!

:tup::tup::tup:


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