engine cuts out and wont start again!!!
 

Went through a bit of water the other night in the gt5 coupe, nothing too deep but a lot of water on the road and thought something might have got a bit damp:eek:, went out again later and she was driving fine then she just died on me and couldnt get her started again. left her for ten mins or so and she eventually started again then got her home. next morning she started fine, warmed her up then set off for work, got about 4 miles down the road and then she just died again! no splutter or missing or anything, just no power dash lights comne on and i grind to a holt! took dizzy off and cleaned up rotor arm, no moisture or corrosion present, tried her a few times and she eventually started, got her to work and then popped her over to the local garage to see if there were any obvious signs.
went back in the afternoon and they tell me ive got no wipers, lights, or
electric windows, they think the problem with it stopping is the ignition leads (which they cant get hold of!) but dont know why ive now got no power to the fuse box! so i leave it with them for another day and finally get her back no better than when i dropped her off (in fact worse off as they gave me a bill!:grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:) I fitted new leads tonight and she seemed to be running fine then she cut out! Im thinking its the coil??? any ideas please?::wall::wall::wall::wall::wall:

What's the engine - something with k-jet? Check fuel pump power connectors.
Dead or nearly dead ignition coil would be hot.

hi mate, dont get excited as im not by any way, shape or form a mechanic lol. does she by any chance have an imobilisor? is she jst dying or coughing and spluttering first? reason i ask is i had a similar problem with my bike, going through france and belgium, of all places and after replacing pretty much all electrical components available, it turned out to be the imobiliser had decided it didnt want to play any more.

as for the fuse box, is there any power getting to it at all? f not then a definate broken wire somewhere i would think.

sorry i cant be of more help?

ps, when i got the imobiliser removed from the bike i was told that they only have pretty much a 6 to 7 year shelf life and that was a yamaha standard fit one

creag

What kind of garage cant get any lights, wipers or electric windows and then diagnoses ignition leads? :hmmm:
The rip off kind.

If theres "no power" at the fusebox, then id be looking at battery leads and earths to start with.
There may be a corroded earth cable thats creating this fault and the driving thru water could have initiated its further failures.

For the stopping problem, get yourself a hairdryer and start the engine as normal, and play the heat on the ignition amplifier ( its under the scuttle panel) and is a little oblong moulded package attached to an alloy heatsink.
Warm it up with the engine running and see if it suddenly stops after a few minutes.
Quite a common kind of fault with older Fords etc where the amp fails when warm but is ok again when cold.

Other than that, youre into looking at fuses and checking for wiring faults.
Also make sure the multiplugs at the back of the fuseboard arent loose or burned out, i had that twice on my old gt with a failure to run and with all the electrics bar the engine power circuits failing and that turned out to be the fusebox burned out.
Audi used to use an old printed circuit board type that was quite frankly- crap but replaced it later on with a sold brass buss bar item that never seems to die.

thanks everyone, just want to point out that the garage didnt diagnose ignition leads as being the reason why i had no wipers lights etc, this was there fault and it happened when they were checking the fusebox, my guess is that they disturbed some thing in there causing the loss of power to the fuse box.
Its now back to how it was when i took it there so rather than paying them i decided to get and fit the leads myself. They did mention it could be the ignition amplifier could be the problem but it was gonna cost me 60 quid for a new one to find out.
I put the leads on last night and she fired up fine (she did seem to run better with the new leads), then after a few minutes cut out.
Tried to start her again but she would not go, the battery by this time read under 12v so this morning Ive put here on charge.
Im gonna check the ignition amplifier and coil next and also the earthing strips do look a bit iffy!
Im sure its only something simple as It has been well looked after and she drove fine on the 200mile trip when I picked her up a couple of weeks ago.
oh.... its an early 1921 5cylinder carb engine
There is no alarm or imobilizer fitted and no fuel injection to wory about.
Im sure its electrical,it doesnt judder or cough and splutter before dying, just dies with no warning.
Had a similar problem with an old golf many years ago, that turned out to be the coil breaking down.
Anyone know where I can get new earthing strips from? and how many there are? I presume i can get hold of the main battery earth easy enough but not sure about the thin braded one/ones??
Anyway thanks again everyone I'll try the above and let you know how i get on

Fuel pump relay or connector under the rear seat to the fuel pump green wire on it own usualy or even the connectors on the pumpitself

Loss of wipers etc can be caused by the ignition switch

Check ignition coil and ignition amplifier how hot they become when engine is running. If u want test by swapping something - isn't anybody who can help u? That primitive ignition must be the same as on 1.6/1.8 carbs and 2.0/2.2 10v k-jet engines from B2, B3, C3.

Hall sender ignition system, only thing simpler is contact breakers! :D

The fact that yours is a 1921 wn code car suggests again to me the fusebox as they were pretty poo on 82 models.
Similar if not the same as mk1 golfs.

They used to suffer burnouts on the multiplug connectors on the rear, only way to be sure is to have a look see.

sounds like it may be the relief relay in position 5

Sounds exactly like mine did. I would start with the fuse box .its a very common problem with those early coupes. If it starts only when you rev it and conks out it’s the carburettor needle valve fell out .also a common problem .

I second what mikes2 said about the relief relay, when it stops just wait and listen for a click from the relay and see if it starts again.you can pop the cover of the relay and look for dampness.

more problems!
 

Since fitting the new leads and charging up the battery i cannot get her to start!
I removed one of the plugs and started her up and could not get a spark. I then put a volt meter on the coil and I've got 12volts when i switch on the ignition. Ive also got a reading on the other side of the coil with ignition on (does this rule out the coil being faulty??) there is fuel present, so am I right to rule out a fuel pump/relay fault?
Ive been told to do a spark test with the 'king pin' lead, will this prove that the ignition coil is ok and that its a distributor or ignition amplifier fault? Ive checked the cap for cracks and all the contacts / rotor arm are clean, the plug on the side of the distributor is a bit iffy, is this the connection to the hall sender? Im thinking that this may be the problem, is it replaceable? can i do a test for this or do I need a new distributor? any ideas????

I had this with my 1.9 GT many years ago. Under the drivers side scuttle area is the ignition Amp with 2 push on round connectors (one I think is from the hall sender). Remove these and check for moisture/ burning and re-attach. Had this on and off for quite a while on mine and ended up changing the pins in the plugs to cure it.
The other item moisture has possibly got into is the hall sender plug on the dizzy, same again, remove clean and re-attach. This area sounds the likely issue as you have 12v on the coil and no spark and as this is a carb engine the fuel pump is mechanical off the camshaft which eliminates that area. Good luck.

I had a fiat 132 many years ago that used to do this. It was a faulty ignition switch. The engine would just randomly cut out, but it started again with another turn of the key.

Also, what about the idle control valve ? (Bosch systems - this is the thing that's partly built into the distributor), and is wired to the ignition amp. I seem to remember the wires for this in the dizzy were very thin and vulnerable to damage. I would have thought if necessary it's possible to bypass this. Sorry for the vague description - it alters the ignition advance retard electronically to compensate for varying engine loads, to keep the idle constant. Some Vauxhalls had the same set up , ie Nova SRs etc.

Water in fuel ? Can you rig up an alternative supply from a can and see if this makes any difference. The symptoms of water in petrol are usually that the car will start and idle fine from cold / standstill, and as you drive off, water begins to move around a bit and gets pulled up into the fuel lines. As it reaches the engine, it misfires and cuts out. Leave it a minute or two and it appears alright until you get half a mile down the road, then it does it again. Rover SD1s and 1980s jap crap were prone to this. Puddle water thrown up by the back wheels got in through rusty fuel tank filler necks.

Some of this not particularily relavent for the 1.9 carb engine, Dizzy has the hall sender in it and thats it. Idleing all done on the carb. This dizzy also still has the vacuum attachment to alter timing for loads as all engines of old did.
If you are getting a good solid 12V at the coil then fusebox and ign switch should be ok. Any fluctuation of the 12v however and i'd be suspecting either the switch or Aux relay as already mentioned.

Thanks again everyone, Im slowly getting there, Just trying to eliminate stuff as I go along. I removed the king lead and cannot get a spark from this either.
Im convinced its the hall sender, Anyone know where I can get some schematics for this car???? A mate (electrical/electronics genius) at work says he can tell me whats wrong using a scope if I can get him some schematics. Is it possible to replace just the hall sender or am I looking at a new dizzy?? Im thinking it may be broken or loose wires to the hall sender.Im also going to replace all the earth conections as well just in case of a bad earth.

If you're not getting a spark from the coil king lead when you hold it to earth when cranking, it's either the coil itself or the coil isn't receiving the switched 12v from the ignition amp

Here is pic of wiring for this section, Very old so hard to make out wires but hope it helps..

cheers !

getting there (i hope)
 

right, coil seems to be ok
The plug with three wires on the side of the distributer (that connects the sensor to the hall sender) seem a bit dodgy, Ive removed the distributer and noticed that the rubber plug is moving freely and the wires can move around and rub against the 'slotted cup' as it rotates. I presume i can press out the gear retaining pin and remove the shaft to get acces to these wires to re-solder or replace.
fingers crossed i find the problem here!
thanks again to everyone who has posted youve all been a great help!
cheers davow