TD...i...don't get it
 

OK, so not really a classic car issue as the TDi craze is on modern Audi's but I was wondering something. While sat in the "library" at home this eveing I was reading of Audi's success in racing with the TDi's and how this technology has changed the face LeMans.
Now, after being privaliged to own an '04 Audi A8 V8 TDi I can vouch for the performance of the modern TDi's. After the success in LeMans and the SEATs in racing also, how come Audi aren't playing on this by making particualrly sporty diesel road cars? ALL S and RS models are still very much petrol powered...... Does this mean that despite the improved and frankly remarkable performance of TDi's we are just not ready for diesel Performance models?? Is it worth all the expence in devolping racing diesels to not bother with sports diesel road cars???

Your thoughts please cos it's buggin me!!

If you want a sporty diesel engine you won't go far wrong with the big 2.4 5 pot lump in a Volvo. Pity the car aint so sporty but it is by far and away the best diesel engine I'v exprienced. Pulls like train until the cylinder head pops one or the turbo hose comes off :wall:

Apparently BMW do a good sporty one too, often bettering their petrol counterparts in the 0-60 but it's got a cylinder missing and a badge that says I'm a corporate noob! I'll be getting one end of next year :rock:

They did talk about making a 5.0 V10 TDi R8, but the plans for that were soon squashed.

The V10 TDi is already used commercially anyway, so it wouldn't take much effort to put one into an R8 would it?
Is the world ready for a diesel engined 'supercar'????????
I think it is but maybe Audi didn't?
They must have a large share in the market for large rep mobiles (A4/A6's) and there's a high amount of those on the road with the diesel engines in. Maybe they are happy enough for the majority of their sales of diesel cars for Fleets and Fleet Management/Leasing Companies? They seem to have a lions share of it when you seen whats the majority car in the outside lane of the motorways.

was there not a rumour of a deisel R8? or was that exactly it a rumour

The R8 V12TDi has been made in prototype - they SHOULD make it!! If they can stop it catching fire that is!!
Lambo reckon they're gonna do a 4 door Supercar, similar to Aston Rapide thing, only avaliable with a TDi but we'll see!!
An A6 with the 4.2 V8 TDi would, I'm sure be as competant as the BiTurbo V10 petrol!!
I'm sure it's just down to marketing but surely Audi should be playing on their brilliant status in terms of diesel engines.

I've had experiance of BMW's diesels, and they are quite good but I still reckon Audi's have em licked! BM's newest turbo'd petrols though are very good - which I'm not happy about!!

being privvy to this what would a sporty deisel sound like? would it have the throb and the bark Ben

Hmmmm I have the 3 tonne beastie that's a 3 tdi deisel tractor and it knocks spots off my old a6 2.8qs :yikes:

Well, my 4.0 V8 TDi sounded brilliant! Not sure you'd get it to sound like a rally car but hey, most new petrols don't either!!

Mine had a deep purposeful growl that was great!!!!

But diesel cars usually cost more, Porsche Cayenne diesel is about 3k more expensive than the petrol car, and you have to do about 66000 miles before it becomes economically viable.

And they only have "puff" between 2 -5000 rpm whereas petrols can be made to scream up to 9000 rpm.

maybe in the way Audi introduced 4wheel dive on their top of the range sports car (the ur) and then once it'd been accepted they then bought it out on the rest of the range . Dont forget 4wd was seen at the time as being only any use for the farm boys.
It'd make sense to introduce diesel power in the R8 and then later on lower sports models?
Only thing that puzzles me is how the narrow rev range would work in practice (never having driven a TDi)

Having drove a fair few modern diesels, the two big negatives for me are the narrow power band, but more importantly the sound of them. They just don't do it for me, much like the vast majority of four potters. That's why I would go for a 2.7T gas guzzler over the far more economical 2.5 TDI quattro A6....and balls to the MPG!

just reading this weeks Autoexpress (RS3 article) and they mention the Clubsport TDi concept car which was launched in 2008.

First I've heard of that one.

If I remember right the ClubSport was an A3 based thing with a highly tuned 2.0TDi???
Looked a bit mingin in red/white??

All well and good and there are already fast TDi's but why not RS models?? Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the petrol engines in RS models, it just seems strange they won't comit to making the RS' availible with derv power when their racing cars are!!

So? Most turbodiesels puts out their maximum torque at about 2k rpm, your favourite screamers at 6-7k rpm. Are u driving petrol engined car just like that in traffic? :D
There is also fact that diesels for sale is detuned - for reliability purposes, to let buyers buy bigger engines that have higher price tag, and also - if there would be many diesels with their full potential unlocked on road, who would buy petrol to be "looser"? :D I presume, if 4.2 TDI [or 4.0 or whatever, I don't know new engines] have similar strenght like old diesels, it can put out something like 800-900 nm and over 400 bhp. 4.2 FSI wouldn't be competive against that.

there isnt a demand for a high performance diesel, Audi are pushing diesel for their road car sales.
The Clubsport was a concept showing a tuned 2.0tdi engine but the R8 V12tdi has been shelved for now.
IF I was going to buy a high performance engine, I want to HEAR it rev to 7-9k revs, not up changing between 2-3k revs, also as said the power band is very narrow with diesels.

besides the torque of bigger diesels is far better than high revving engines anyway BUT then the transmission cant take it:rolleyes:
so its a split between developing a transmission that wont tie itself into a box of knots at the first hot start from the lights and an engine that can be reliable and rev its tits off:ihih::ihih:
the R8 V12tdi is shelved until someone develops the transmission to handle the massive torque generated, the box fitted to the concept car would last 100 yards if it was given the beans, ( quote Autocar showpiece article of the car in Miami).

If traditional piston engined diesel would be capable of such high revs, I wouldn't like to hear such awful sound :D
Very narrow powerband? Audi turbocharged petrol engines have similar powerband, only it's higher on clock, very impractical.
Actually the problem is that ppls compare high performance diesels with high performance petrol engines, taking petrol as standart - high revving, smooth, with nice sound, fuel hungry, bought by ppls who can afford it. While diesel is economical and comfortable daily driver, but when u put your foot down, it gives u performance of sportscar.
P.S. For me sound is only reason why not to get 2.5 TDI in future for my A90q, but gains are spectacular - fuel economy something like 5l/100 km on road and 400-500 nm of torque provided by the same engine - 20vt can provide such torque but which petrol engine can provide fuel mileage like that? Maybe very small FSI engine...

Going back to basics here I think the reason Audi have not brought out (for example)an RS4 diesel is quite simply because no-one would buy the petrol version. I mean a 4.2 TDI with suitable tall gearing and all that torque against the high revving much thirstier 4.2 petrol... I know which I'd go for, especially with fuel prices sneaking back up again...
I do love my petrol 20Vt in the Cq though as it can be driven like a diesel (max 295lb/ft torque at 1950rpm) but can be revved upto 7000rpm if the mood takes me passing most modern cars in the process. The main downside is that if I drive it this way it reduces my mpg from 30 to 12mpg. :yikes: so as the month progresses it gets driven more and more like a diesel until I get paid again, then it's fun time all over again...:lol: My tuned Passat TDi average on the other hand never drops below 30mpg no matter how hard you drive it.
If Audi do bring out an R8 Diesel, I think they probably realise they'll lose 90% of the sales of the petrol version.

fair point about the R8 TDI.. BUT who can afford the price of a V12 tdi and even so it would be a limited halo model anyway.
a V8 tdi R8:hmmm::hmmm::hmmm: OR a V10 for that matter since it exists in the VW empire engine draw:ihih:

down to bean counters and consumer demand I recon