wheel question
 

im looking for advise/help in regard to wheels for my b4 cq,as part of the revival im changing the wheels, i dont want to go down the 18" route, i think they look too big unless you drop the suspension on its arse and im too old these days for a rough ride, so im thinking 17" but wide, like 9j ive been sat tonight scratching my head trying to work out what et will push the wheels out as far as possible and possibly just a bit too far so i may need to break out the grinder and welder and do some subtle extending prior to paint - its always been a bit annoying how slim these cars look, if the ABT kit was still available my credit card would be straight out!!
so, if anyone could post some 17" wheel pictures along with tyre sizes so i can see what things look like tha would be great....... if anyone would like to demonstrate that 18's look good also that would be equally welcome :cool:

oh yeah, i came to in the end, 17x9 et20 would push the wheel out about 42mm over the standard 15" it had on ...... gonna chuck a wheel back on tomorrow when i get back and see how that will play out

I don't mean to be rude but I'm guessing handling is not top of your list of priority's?

I did a fair bit of mucking about with wheels and tyres on my old S2 Coupe and the best compromise I found was 7.5" or 8" x 17" with an ET between 25 and 35 and 225/45/17 tyres, which is a common and therefore fairly inexpensive size to buy decent rubber. 215/45/17's also work very well but are expensive and you can get away with a 235/45/17 on a 8" rim but again they're expensive.

Please don't cheap out on tyre's they're critical to safety and some of the ones now coming from China are simply awful.

I had a set of ET 27 7.5" X 17" Compotives MO's fitted with 225/45/17 track day tyre's (which seem to be a touch wider than road tyre's for a given size) that filled the arches nicely with no contact problems, looked great and I do have a couple of photo's I'll try and find. I seem to recall I ran them with 8mm spacers on the back, so ET22, they would just foul the front arches with the spacers though.

However in the end I went back to stock 3B wheels with good quality tyre's as handling was my main concern. They're ET 37 and 7" X 16" or in the case of ABY's 7.5" X 16" fitted with 205/55/16's and Audi got this right IMO. I did try running these with 15mm hub centric spacers so ET 22 and that looked great, again no contact problems but the car handled better without them.

I’d never take that as rude, this is exactly the sort of reply I’m after, handling is up there don’t worry, I never cheap out on tyres as I like to be in three figure mph when ever it’s safe to do so lol, however, I want to look at the car and want to drive it, having owned an escort cosworth after a long time dribbling about owning one, and then selling it a fair few years ago now for less than 10k - only to be sent a link to an eBay add for the very same car a few weeks ago with an asking price of 52k ���� - I’m going off track, for me the escort was probably one of the best looking cars to come off a production line , not the basic escort they were aweful , just the cosworth, it didn’t handle that great to be honest, but to look at it was to want to get in it and drive it, so, to my point, I want to try and create a bit of an aggressive stance for my car if possible, the wheels need to be dished at least a bit, just to give some illusion of width, if I could take six inches off the front of the car so it looked a little better balanced that would be happening but sadly I can’t haha,
Please if anyone thinks I’m getting it wrong , please say, I’ll happily listen, I’ve got no track days intended, just a bit of driving about , spirited or non spirited, it’s just going to be nice not to be surrounded by air bags and technology ��

Ah I see phone emojis don’t work when posting a quick reply……. The question marks are not meant to be question marks doh

I always try and avoid posting from my phone as it comes out looking a mess.;)

Escort Cosworths are one of my favourite cars, they’re really a re bodied Sierra hence the great handling, though I’m sure you knew that already. I bet your a little gutted you parted with it now, I was lucky and picked up my RS2 in 2015 just before the prices went crazy. It’s worth so much now I’m scared to drive it properly, still perhaps that’s a good thing, my 380 BHP S2 got driven what in hindsight was perhaps a little over enthusiastically.

I reckon the best compromise would be something like a 235/45/17 on a 8.5j rim with an offset of between 25 and 30, that would fill the arches nicely and still handle pretty well.

ok, so i think i maybe may have reached a decision...... dont shoot me but i think this may keep me happy from an aesthetic point of view and if i feel brave enough will press go to take advantage of some slight discount care of black friday, after a chat with driftworks yesterday ive got until 5th of dec.
so potentially the wheel will be a 17x9 with an offset of et25 and the tyre will be a 245/40r17..... good tyres all seem to be within 100 quid each, and i can ask my local tyre company to call them a super single for invoice purposes, happy days there but nothing can be done about the cost of the wheels, i'm just going to have to wear that :sad:
the next question at this width is will i have to stretch to coil overs instead of the planned new shockers and 30mm lower springs....... i can see my original budget being scrapped and credit card taking a beating :eek:

just to touch back on the escort, it seemed like the right thing to do at the time, i do wish i still had it but also slightly glad i dont as cosworth tax is ridiculas , in a way seeing that ad for 52k did annoy me but i can tell you that car wasnt worth that and the guy selling it was bullshitting on a grand scale, if i still had it, yes it would be worth plenty but its only worth anything when you sell it, and knowing what i know now, i wouldnt be selling it, like the coupe, im not in love with it (yet) but i wont sell her because everything old is now worth more money than i have to spend, so im just going to keep her and enjoy the car..... first though she has a job to be ready for! :wall:

That set up should be okay, the 245/40 will give about the same clearance as a 235/45 so that's very close to what I suggested would be the limit. I have worked as a tyre fitter as well as mechanic so I've got a pretty good idea of what will work.

Regarding suspension, really coil-overs would be ideal as they would allow for fine tuning and any clearance issues but that's another £1K for anything decent... See if you can find some Eibach springs, they tend to be very good quality and not lower too much, certainly the best aftermarket springs for German car's in my experience.

Some of the car adverts on eBay are complete lies, unfortunately the motor trade is infested with rouges.:nonod:

Some 17's here ....... http://www.classic-audi.co.uk/forum/...=36332&page=45

Sorry guys, I'm old school as most of you know, I do understand if you need bigger brakes the standard wheel is tight on space, yes bigger wheel does give most cars a better side view and depending on the offset, a wider stance from the front and rear, but we all love our cars and the look of them is far better than most of the cars today, just leave it the way it came out factory, uprated shocks, lowered coil and tires like rubber bands all look good, the comments you hear are, it's like driving on rails, but you won't drive 200 miles on a day trip due to the poor ride quality, and when you park it 99.99% of people will have to go to the rear to see what model it is anyway, and when you come back you may still have 4 wheel ,one on each corner, do I sound old or what!!!

I have to say I agree with you and I'm 'only' 45, so no you don't sound old..:lol:

That's why I went back to stock 16" wheels and springs with Koni shocks on my 3B, because I wanted to drive the pants of the thing on a wide variety of roads, tyre's only lasted 2000 miles or so with RS2+ spec but decent 205/55/16's are cheap enough.

However each to their own, I won't say anything negative about someone else's car unless what they've done is unsafe or just plain silly.;)

Indeed, each to their own and I think the original poster knows what he'd like. I'm 'only' 42. I used to have 17s on my 90 20v, Bilstein and Eibach springs. Looked and handled great. But it depends if you want any comfort. It's all a compromise. I've found the best blend of handling and comfort is the standard sport suspension setup. I like to occasionally drive her hard but more often I like to cruise comfortably and not wince at speed bumps - but I'm old too. If you want a blend of comfort and handling, Audi have already done the hard work :)

EDIT: there's one tempting reason I might ever go bigger than 15" - to get a better selection (and value) of tyres. Not much choice for 205/50/15s these days, although the new Vredesteins I went for are pretty good.

Can I just say, I’m 45 lol so we’re all about as close to retirement as each other haha.
If it turns out I’ve made a few cockups with what I’m going for then it’s ok, I can just change it, but it is about looking at something and wanting to get in and drive it for me, I’d really like to flare the arches a little but I’m just concentrating on getting the mechanicals in order first off…… updates to the prom mobile thread later I hope, I’ve just got the fuel lane out and lines all pulled off, just door cards to take off now for today and it’ll be time to start cooking tea :)

I really like the stock Audi sports spring options, I feel they got it just right for all road conditions, hence why I'm sticking the sports pack suspension off the 30V C4 I broke on my 12V car... Okay the 12V is an Avant quattro and the 30V was a Saloon quattro but given that the springs have no rust at all on them I reckon they'll be a big upgrade over the crusty old originals.

After a huge amount of faffing about with just about everything on my S2 I found the best set up for all round conditions IMO was stock 3B wheels and springs, Koni top adjustable's set two clicks off max damping along with medium density poly bushes everywhere.

Then the most important thing is getting the car set up properly by a place that knows what they're doing and gets a car properly aligned, not just within tollerances. This is a nightmare as most places are awful, in the end I went to motorsport specialist in Bristol on the recommendation of another S2Forum user and they got it spot on.

As I said each to their own, the world would be a very boring place if we all thought the same…

I’m kinda the opposite, couldn’t really give a monkeys what something looks like, how it actually drives and sound mechanical condition are my main priority’s.

I would advise against flaring the rear quarters as they are extremely hard to change on a Coupe and tampering with them can easily cause corrosion problems down the road so to speak. Doesn’t matter so much with the front wings as they simply bolt on… ;)

https://i.postimg.cc/0y8sDn79/5-AA03...2-C77-A573.jpg

now would be the ideal time to be medalling with the arches whilst i can get to everywhere to paint correctly and completely :)

Indeed, now would be the time to do it as it's the interior of the car you need to worry about protecting, it's not hard to do a good job of painting the outside, what I'd be concerned about is the inside...

Wherever you weld on the outside of the car will obviously burn off the factory primer and Waxoil on the inside and this is where future problems would be most likely to start off. However if your doing all the work yourself then you can really take your time and do a good job of repainting and adding rust protection to the inside of the rear quarters. I wouldn't trust many body shops to do a good job of this as it's a bit of fiddle, however as I said if you've got plenty of time then you can do it properly.

Done well I reckon it could look pretty cool, not my personal preference but hey it's not my car.;)

If it was me I'd spending all the time and money it takes to do this to drop the compression and bolt a supercharger on along with a bigger injectors and an aftermarket ECU, but again that's down to personal preferences.

I didn’t mention I bought a 2001 a6 2.7twin turbo some time ago as a donor car for the engine and box and everything I could possibly need to build an at least 400bhp car - and yes I know the engine doesn’t exactly fit because of the turbos being lower down - but strangely that was some of the appeal lol ….. I figured as it’s got a v6 in it already that’s what I wanted to stick with but I wanted turbo to, but that’s well out of the budget at the moment- infact that’s a whole other budget haha. I’m being quite well disciplined actually , although I originally just said I was going to over haul each corner and then give it to a garage to address the fuel lines, I have to have the old lass done by June, so I mustn’t complicate things yet until I know I’ve got the time :)

A 2.7 twin turbo should fit with some custom work and that's probably a better way of making more power than trying to boost the the old 2.8 12V.

A mate who I work with purchased a car the same spec as yours with a knackered engine and we did start sizing up fitting a 2.7 and came to the conclusion it would work, though he ended up finding a replacement AAH engine as we found one locally cheap and he wants to keep the car stock.

It should bolt straight up to the gearbox as it's actually the same basic block casting as the 2.8 naturally aspirated motors, I've just sold the heads off the 2.8 30V I broke to a guy who wants to use them on 2.7 B5 S4.

I did some research way back when, apparently any Audi engine will mate up to any Audi gearbox - not sure if it’s still the case but it was at the time of my digging around. I only have a five speed in my coupe and it’s a six in the a6, so the plan was to use everything including the rear diff if it had different ratios of any kind……. There’s no reason the engine shouldn’t go in, after all it’s technically just another v6, information is incredibly limited but it’s the turbos being down the sides that’s the issue, so from what I could find you either chop out the inner wings? Or move the turbos to the top, the latter was going to be my choice - and if I ever do it still will be, the abs may be in the way, but hey, why make life simple . I was also talking about supercharging when I first bought the old lass but I think the end result was about 225 bhp?

Your right in sense that just about any longitudinal mounted Audi gearbox will mate to any engine, however it's not quite as simple as that, some holes may need to be opened up, location dowels moved about and bolt lengths adjusted.

Then when it comes to drive train I'd leave that alone, fitting a B4/5 rear diff to a B3 platform car (which all 1987-1996 Coupes are) would be a real headache and as nice as it is having six gears I actually prefer the old five speed in my S2 over the six speed in my RS2. Sure the six speed is much, much stronger but they all seem to suffer from a slightly notchy feel compared the five speed, especially between first and second gear.

If the compression is dropped on the AAH engine (I'd do it with custom rods) then with suitable engine management and fuel delivery 300BHP should be achievable with right type of charger, the Vortech units get really good result's on VR6 engines and give power figures in this range.

i could live with 300bhp, its more than enough if its only a bit of fast road driving, definately enough to catch nob heads out that try beating you round a roundabout in the wrong lane...... this is a serious pet hate of mine and sadly is common place in scunthorpe :fire:
ive only seen a few supercharged and they seam to mount the charger where the air box is?

I know what you mean about rounderbout walkers, I use take great delight in absolutely annihilating them in my 1300kg 380bhp S2, not many cars could keep with that thing, certainly embarrassed a few chavs as well people in £100K sports cars. My RS2 is nearly as quick but it's got quite a big K26/7 so takes a few more RPM to come on to boost and is full weight, still it handles much better than an S2 Coupe which kinda evens things out...

I've been quietly researching ways of boosting the AAH engine as that's what in my C4 Avant quattro which may get upgraded down the line...

Am about to help my mother with her shopping but will be back online later...

:cool:

i ordered my wheels today :tup:

Sorry if i missed it but what design wheel did you go for in the end? Bet your looking forward to getting them!:smilewinkgrin:

Right... On to boosting an AAH, unfortunately as they're not as common as the VR6 motor there isn't anywhere in the UK offering either turbo or supercharger packages for our engines so we have to work it out for our self's. There were a couple of company's in states offering such upgrades but they don't seem to be available any longer.

One modern advance that makes life a little easier is affordable after market ECU's, it's still a major out lay but is essential, the factory V6 ECU was never designed to handle positive inlet pressure, only vacuum, so it simply isn't built for handling a charger. Max ECU seems to be very good value and then of course there's good old VEMS and of course there are other options. Then you either have to learn how map a car or find a tuner to do it for you, I like to learn how to do everything myself so would opt for the former.

The Vortech superchargers seem to give the most bang for buck and it would need to be mounted so the pulley is inline with the rest of the other pulleys, the air-box side of the engine has the most space so that area would make sense...

Or you could go for turbocharging which will give even more power as their considerably more efficient than superchargers, there's just enough space behind the motor to squeeze one in there but it would mean a lot of custom work with the exhaust as well as intake pipe work. Or you can go for a remote turbo and fit one under the car, say where the Cat currently lives, still a lot of work.

The compression of the engine will need to be lowered, this can be done a couple of ways, thicker head gaskets or different con-rods are the two best options.

Either option is going to add up to a major outlay even if your capable of doing a lot of the work yourself but would be a lot of fun once complete...

A cheaper option if your just after short boosts in power is good old Nitrous Oxide, that can be done with a stock ECU and won't cost anything like as much but will only give really quite short increases in power. it also won't give as much outright power as either way of boosting an engine, I'd expect no more than 250bhp and that may even be pushing it a bit far.

So if you've already got a 2.7 Turbo engine making that fit will cost less than either of the other options, that could be modified to use one turbo behind the engine as well which is another way of getting around making the stock set up fit in a B3/4 engine bay.

The AAH engine itself can be made to go a little better by modifying the inlet, and they should go pretty well anyway if there's no vacuum leaks which they are very prone to.

I’m going to keep the wheels to myself just now until
I’ve got them on in some sort of form as I do think they’ll be a bit of a marmite choice for a lot of people, they weren’t my first choice but I think they’ll look quite good when everything is done snd the car is painted …… I’m going to buy two tyres for now so I can check the fit on the front and rear axles without splashing out for four tyres in a oner- things in the wallet department are getting a bit out of control , although I didn’t think the price of the tyres was too bad , the most expensive choice being 129 each.
I like the idea of turbo charging the current engine, I’ve just looked on eBay to see if there’s a second hand aah to start the process but no such luck ….. or maybe it is lucky as that’s just bending the budget even more lol
Was hoping to get home today before the powder Coaters go home, all repair work to the rear subframe is now done, it just needs dropping back in

If / when you're ready to show your wheels, post up and get the thread closed instantly so us miserable old buggers can't ruin your evening :smilewinkgrin:

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: He is right in what he says :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

i already know :lol::lol::lol:

got two tyres fitted on friday and ive got to say, the tyres sit perfectly, the over all diameter is nearly identical to the standard 15" wheels and tyres, just waiting for some skinny wheel bolts so i can actually put them on the car properly

https://i.postimg.cc/2jn7qVwQ/9B5A83...48DFA6FEA5.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/6qxVjX94/C9156C...5CCE8B08C9.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/K80NZw5C/D46781...E3BDE51E1E.jpg

obviously the wheel is sat on some wood currently but as you can see, it looks like it pokes out slightly which is just what i wanted, potentially a little arch work and that will give the car a nicer look :cool:
and theres my daughter to - the prom passenger!

looking at that I'll think they'll just about clear on the back, you might find they catch the wings when on lock going over a bump however.

indeed they will! now that were on the other side of the christmas break and im not where i need to be progress wise, plans need to change a little, i dont have time to widen the arches, so im gonna have to bite the bullet and buy two new wheels for the front on an et30 offset instead of 20, i think the rears can be rolled slightly, although i had the car 4 wheel tracked when it was on the road and the rear track looks like its towing in badly, i need the wheels to be parallel to the arches for rolling to work, so im thinking ill just eye it all in then get it done again when its back on the road. the goal was never to have the wheels sticking out of the arches, but to extend the arches and give the car a more aggressive look.... :wall:

The back wheels are supposed to have 20 minutes of positive toe each side at the back so they will be pointing in slight at the front, and that figure has a 10 minute tolerance so they could be pointing in as much as half a degree if their on the limit.

I don't think there's much you do with the rear arches on a Coupe they already are kinda rolled and there isn't really a lip. You may be able to gain a couple of mm by squashing the factory rolled edge down but it'll break the paint.

I did think you were pushing it a bit with a 9" rim and ET 20, I guess at least you'll two spare wheels for the back.

Make sure you put the stock wheels and tyres back on before getting the alignment done as a 10mm difference in ET on the axles will confuse the hell out of the tracking gauges.